Talk:Phir Amrit Ki Boond Padi (फिर अमरित की बूंद पड़ी) (11 talks)
This book, Amrit for short, is one of three Hindi books arising from the World Tour. The other two are Koplen Phir Phoot Aayeen (कोंपलें फिर फूट आईं) and Phir Patto Ki Panjeba Baji (फिर पत्तो की पांजेबा बजी). All three titles have the word "Phir," meaning among other things, "again," a small but potentially significant element linking them all thematically.
- These three titles are in fact Osho's only titles to use this word. It is not a stretch to speculate that, as Osho has repeatedly told his people not to repeat things -- i know, i know -- the againness expressed in these titles is something particularly meaningful here. They are his first Hindi books in over four years. They are his last Hindi books ever. He is back in India again, returned to this special place. See also Koplen's talk page for a glimpse of another angle on againness, one that resonates with Osho's "personal" experience. -- added doofus-9 18:22, 4 February 2017 (UTC)
It is evident also in the subtitles, variations of "rediscovering forgotten treasure," of The Diamond Sword, a translation of Amrit and Koplen. All the Phir books were (first) published by "Rajanisadhama Prakasana," evidently a "house" publisher operating only during the Ranch and World Tour times and extending into 1987, likely just for finishing projects.
Two other editions of Amrit have occurred since the first, but both house editions not picked up much by online booksellers. And they both had transliteration differences that interfere with finding them easily, Pari and Padhi for the last word. And cementing their place in the obscurity sweepstakes, the OMI ISBN 9788172612528 is found in only one place online and the ISBN 978-81-8393-245-5 for the Sadhana edition now cannot be found at all. In fact, the Sadhana edition has disappeared completely. I had wanted to verify changing "Sadhana" to "Sadhana Pocket Books" but now cannot and will just trust that is correct. With other similar cases where Osho World has cited "Sadhana" as a publisher, their back page image has "Sadhana Pocket Books."
Below are two versions of TOCs for Amrit, the first derived from an Osho World pdf e-book, the second from recent hard copy from OMI. A comparison and discussion of implications follows.
The pdf has dates and places embedded in it, seemingly coming at the end of chapters, though there are no real spacing, different fonts, or chapter numbers etc to solidify that. Titles appear as just single lines in the flow of text. The July and August dates are all 1986, talks given at Suraj Prakash's house Sumila in Juhu, Mumbai. The November dates are all 1985, from (Kullu) Manali.
- Ch 1: मैं स्वतंत्र आदमी हुं (Main Swatantra Aadmi Hun) ... 31 Jul am (p 20 of 169) ‡‡
- Ch 2: मैं जीवन सिखाता हुं (Main Jeevan Sikhata Hun) ... (no time or place given, p 37) ‡‡
- Ch 3 एक नया ध्रुवतारा (Ek Naya Dhruvatara) ... 2 Aug am (p 53) **
- Ch 4: मेरी दृष्टि सृजनात्मक है (Meri Drishti Srijanatmak Hai) ... 4 Aug am (p 66) **
- Ch 5: जीवन बहती गंगा है (Jeevan Bahati Ganga Hai) ... 6 Aug am (p 84) ‡‡
- Ch 6: मैं तुम्हें इक्कीसवी सदी में ले जा सकता हुं (Main Tumhen Ikkisavi Sadi Mein Le Ja Sakta Hun) ... 10 Aug evg (p 99) **
- Ch 7: भारत के पास असली खजाना है (Bharat Ke Pas Asali Khajana Hai) ... 20 Nov afternoon (p 118)
- Ch 8: करुणा सत्य से अधिक मूल्यवान है (Karuna Satya Se Adhik Mulyavan Hai) ... 23 Nov no time (p 129)
- Ch 9: मैं गुणतंत्र में विशवस करता हूँ (Main Gunatantra Mein Vishwas Karta Hun) ... 24 Nov am (p 140) ‡‡
- Ch 10: एक विशवा व्यापी ध्यान आंदोलन (Ek Vishwa Vyapi Dhyan Andolan) ... 25 Nov am (p 153) ** ‡‡
- Ch 11: मैं आशीष देता रहूंगा (Main Asheesh Deta Rahunga) ... 28 Nov am (p 169) ‡‡
** = Some notes about particular chapters:
Ch 3's title above is the same as OMI's ch 2, ch 4 above the same as OMI's ch 3 and ch 6 above the same as OMI's ch 4, all from Sumila. There are no other title correspondences. And for ch 10, a minor Devanagari issue: i was unable to exactly recreate the rendering of "Vishwa" used in OW's pdf. It may be that fashions have evolved since that doc was made. The current fashion seems to have it as विश्व, the closest i could get to the pdf was विशवा (not a word), with the pdf having the vertical bar removed from "श".
And ‡‡ = These chapters ran into minor time conflicts with some Last Testament discourses. Since the LT times (am/pm) were attested to by the CD-ROM, they shall take precedence for now. And ch 2 was assigned Aug 1 without an am/pm in the Timeline listings.
- विषय सूची (OMI TOC):
- 1 ध्यान प्रक्रिया है रूपांतरण की p 1-14
- 2 एक नया ध्रुवतारा p 15-32
- 3 मेरी दृष्टि सृजनात्मक है p 33-48
- 4 तुम्हे इक्कीसवी सदी मे ले जा सकता हूं p 49-64
- 5 भारत एक सनातन यात्रा p 65-82
- plus 17 pages of info about Osho, his books, the Resort, etc.
The OMI discourses correspond to audio titles, of which there are also only five. Why are there not eleven? Some partially informed speculation follows. And as mentioned above, three of these five titles correspond to those in the e-book. What about the other two? Where have they come from? For now the only answers are to be found in DIY metaphysics.
The Sumila talks occur on days when there are also talks for Koplen but all are at different times of the day, a comforting and solidifying fact. But there are only five audios for Amrit. What about those other six chapters? Another source has it that both Amrit and Phir Patto are translations, not even original Hindi. That would seem to be at least partially untrue in the case of Amrit, given the Hindi audio, but the six non-audio ones? Amrit's eight "unknown source" dates don't correspond to dates currently known for Last Testament talks but there may be other translation possibilities.
Another possibility is that this e-book was a part or a spin-off of The Diamond Sword project, a translation/compilation of Amrit and Koplen, though it's hard to see where one might go with that. There are no correlations between Koplen's titles and Amrit's. Other ideas welcome. -- updated doofus-9 (talk) 23:25, 9 December 2014 (PST)
A look at the e-book for Phir Patto has turned up some interesting info related to Amrit, and that is: two of its chapters have titles exactly the same as the two "missing" chapters of Amrit, ie the two chapters in the OMI version which are not in the e-book version. It must be stressed that the OMI text version is corroborated by audiobook versions found at both osho.com and Osho World, whereas the e-book versions are found only at OW and copycat sites, so the whole misalignment could be explained as an error in putting the e-books together. Support for this view can be found in the fact that ch 1 of Phir Patto is out of order datewise in its e-book (Oct 27, 1986, in a book whose known other dates are all in order, in Dec 1985) but as the last chapter of Amrit, it is in order.
It seems here however, that such mistakes -- transferring chapters out of one e-book into another, with dates that fit in order (except ch 1 of Phir Patto) -- are unlikely, and it would be just as likely that, say, all the five discourses whose decent-quality audio is available were amalgamated, under one name just to keep it simple. Or any number of other ideas could have been the case. Perhaps someone with the first-edition hard copy can set this straight. -- doofus-9 (talk) 00:11, 28 October 2014 (PDT)
Any idea on which dates those 5 audios (of OW) were ? --Sugit (talk) 18:53, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
None. I believe date info has been removed from Hindi audios, just like the English ones, unless someone has old audios. -- doofus-9 (talk) 22:40, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
A Light at the End of the Tunnel
Yr editor has received information from Shailendra about how the confusion has arisen between these two Phir books. It is this: As originally arranged and published in 1987, each book was eleven chapters, consisting mostly of translations, as there weren't actually many talks in Hindi on that part of the World Tour, ie the Himalayas in Nov-Dec 1985 and Mumbai in Jul-Oct 1986. In fact, there were only the five with audio. (And that's why there were only five Hindi audios.)
And when the books were republished in 2011, they were completely re-arranged and interchanged, so that Amrit ended up being only five chapters (the five Hindi originals, with chapter titles corresponding to the audio titles) and Phir Patto the other seventeen talks, all the translations of English originals which had been in the two books combined the first time around. How about that!
The table below shows the movement between the two editions and two titles. Lines in pale pink indicate discourses in original Hindi. Note that the new arrangement has put each book in chronological order. -- doofus-9 04:58, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
| First Edition 1987 | Date, Place & Language of Discourse | 2011 Edition |
|---|---|---|
| Phir Amrit 1 | Jul 31 1986, Mumbai, English | Phir Patto 15 |
| Phir Amrit 2 | Aug 1 1986, Mumbai, English | Phir Patto 16 |
| Phir Amrit 3 | Aug 2 1986, Mumbai, Hindi | Phir Amrit 2 |
| Phir Amrit 4 | Aug 4 1986, Mumbai, Hindi | Phir Amrit 3 |
| Phir Amrit 5 | Aug 6 1986, Mumbai, English | Phir Patto 17 |
| Phir Amrit 6 | Aug 10 1986, Mumbai, Hindi | Phir Amrit 4 |
| Phir Amrit 7 | Nov 20 1985, Manali, English | Phir Patto 1 |
| Phir Amrit 8 | Nov 23 1985, Manali, English | Phir Patto 2 |
| Phir Amrit 9 | Nov 24 1985, Manali, English | Phir Patto 3 |
| Phir Amrit 10 | Nov 25 1985, Manali, English | Phir Patto 4 |
| Phir Amrit 11 | Nov 28 1985, Manali, English | Phir Patto 5 |
| Phir Patto 1 | Oct 27 1986, Mumbai, Hindi | Phir Amrit 5 |
| Phir Patto 2 | Dec 1 1985, Manali, English | Phir Patto 6 |
| Phir Patto 3 | Dec 2 1985, Manali, English | Phir Patto 7 |
| Phir Patto 4 | Dec 3 1985, Manali, English | Phir Patto 8 |
| Phir Patto 5 | Dec 5 1985, Manali, English | Phir Patto 9 |
| Phir Patto 6 | Dec 8 1985, Manali, Hindi | Phir Amrit 1 |
| Phir Patto 7 | Dec 24 1985, Manali, English | Phir Patto 10 |
| Phir Patto 8 | Dec 26 1985, Manali, English | Phir Patto 11 |
| Phir Patto 9 | Dec 27 1985, Manali, English | Phir Patto 12 |
| Phir Patto 10 | Dec 28 1985, Manali, English | Phir Patto 13 |
| Phir Patto 11 | Dec 30 1985, Manali, English | Phir Patto 14 |
