Manuscripts ~ Programmes Timeline Extraction: Difference between revisions
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A correspondent has shared his research into [[ | A correspondent has shared his research into [[:Category:Manuscripts]]. Some of Osho's early writings have turned out to be fact-based accounts of his travels, speeches, and the events of the time. The research is organized into several batches, corresponding to the particular groups of manuscripts where info was found. All info presented is annotated, ie which sheet of the manuscripts it derives from is clearly indicated, so one can also study them for oneself. In some cases, Osho's notes contain the full text of early unpublished discourses, though not in this batch. | ||
This batch, the | '''This batch, the second in the series, derives from a small group of just three pages at [[Manuscripts ~ Programmes]]. It is particularly short but concentrated, mostly a schedule of talks running from Apr 25 to Aug 10 and another small group from Jan 26 to Feb 6. These manuscripts do not include the year, as it was not needed for Osho's notes about his program for a few months. Comparison with existing [[Osho Events | Timelines]] makes 1968 look reasonably likely for the time frame for the first two pages, which are flip sides of each other. The other page, containing notes about the short period from Jan 26 to Feb 6, was thought at first to "continue" from the first two into 1969 but it now appears likelier that it is from 1967. This lack of connectedness from one paper in a group with another has happened in other batches; it is something to be alert about. See the [[#Analysis|Analysis below]] for details on all this. ''' | ||
Other batches in this series are | Other batches in this series are: (1) [[Manuscripts ~ Messages Timeline Extraction]] and (3) [[Manuscripts ~ Reports Timeline Extraction]]. | ||
:(1) [[Manuscripts ~ Messages Timeline Extraction]] | |||
Related to these manuscripts is a collection of five Notebooks written by Osho's cousin and secretary in Jabalpur, [[Arvind Kumar Jain]]. These contain more notes on Osho's activities in parts of the 60s. Our correspondent has dug into these as well, and a similar [[Notebooks Timeline Extraction]] has been created from these endeavours. | |||
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| || <big>Sheet 1R</big> -- (Probable year 1968) || see [[#Analysis|Analysis]] below for details | | || <big>Sheet 1R</big> -- (Probable year 1968) || see [[#Analysis|Analysis]] below for details | ||
|- | |- | ||
| Apr | | Apr 26 om || Delhi, "Vichargoshthi" || "Vichargoshthi" translates variously as seminar, symposium, etc | ||
|- | |- | ||
| Apr 28 pm || Jabalpur - Shahid Smarak Bhawan - Lecture || | | Apr 28 pm || Jabalpur - Shahid Smarak Bhawan - Lecture || | ||
Line 29: | Line 28: | ||
| May 17 am || Poona - Lecture at Antarbharti (16th to 23 May 63 he was at Gadarwara, as per Notebook Vol 2) || | | May 17 am || Poona - Lecture at Antarbharti (16th to 23 May 63 he was at Gadarwara, as per Notebook Vol 2) || | ||
|- | |- | ||
| May 18 - 20 || | | May 18 - 20 || Junagadh - meditation camp || | ||
|- | |- | ||
| May 20 om || Saurashtra - Discussions with Jeevan Jagriti Kendra workers || | | May 20 om || Saurashtra - Discussions with Jeevan Jagriti Kendra workers || see below | ||
|- | |- | ||
| Jun 9 - 11 || Udaipur – Meditation camp || | | Jun 9 - 11 || Udaipur – Meditation camp || | ||
Line 39: | Line 38: | ||
| Jun 21 pm || Porbandar Rotary Club || | | Jun 21 pm || Porbandar Rotary Club || | ||
|- | |- | ||
| Jun 21 - 23 || Porbandar - | | Jun 21 - 23 || Porbandar - satsangs || | ||
|- style="background:#ddddf1;" | |- style="background:#ddddf1;" | ||
| colspan="3" | | | colspan="3" | | ||
Line 71: | Line 70: | ||
| colspan="3" | | | colspan="3" | | ||
|- | |- | ||
| || <big>Sheet 2</big> -- || early | | || <big>Sheet 2</big> -- || early 1967? See Analysis below. | ||
|- | |- | ||
| Jan 26 || Pipariya - Lecture at "people's gathering". || | | Jan 26 || Pipariya - Lecture at "people's gathering". || | ||
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===Analysis=== | ===Analysis=== | ||
About our correspondent's "probably" speculations regarding certain of the facts about Indore, there is no basis for them in the manuscripts, but no harm in accepting them conditionally with a [[image:Q-Mark.jpg|18px]]. | About our correspondent's "probably" speculations regarding certain of the facts about Indore, there is no basis for them in the manuscripts, but no harm in accepting them conditionally with a [[image:Q-Mark.jpg|18px|link=]]. | ||
About the talk with JJK workers at or in "Saurashtra" in the afternoon, this is indeed what the transcription says, but there is a jarring note with respect to the Timeline, where this precise time indicates a "normal" camp discourse in Junagarh/Junagadh, "Mati Kahai Kumhar Sun ~ 03". This is not much of a problem though. Saurashtra is an area of Gujarat which contains Junagadh, and a workers' talk would likely have taken place during the camp, so probably a detail of timing has been scrambled, and either the om for the workers' talk or the om for the ''Mati Kahai'' talk should be an am. | |||
:3rd ''Mati'' was given on 20 May 1968 afternoon, see [[Talk:Mati Kahai Kumhar Sun (माटी कहै कुम्हार सूं)]]. | |||
About Pipariya, Wikipedia has no less than three of them in Madhya Pradesh. The largest is in Hoshangabad Dist, so it will get the nod. | |||
The main event here concerns nailing the year. | The main event here concerns nailing the year. | ||
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First, Sheets 1R and 1V are not randomly thrown together, they are Recto and Verso, flip sides of each other. And the dates and places in 1V are clearly a continuation of those in 1R. A no-brainer. | First, Sheets 1R and 1V are not randomly thrown together, they are Recto and Verso, flip sides of each other. And the dates and places in 1V are clearly a continuation of those in 1R. A no-brainer. | ||
But Sheet 2 is another matter. It will be | But Sheet 2 is another matter. It will be more difficult to fit it into the [[Osho Timeline 1969|1969 Timeline]], where it was first thought to belong. Reproduced below is the relevant section of that timeline. | ||
{| class = "wikitable" | {| class = "wikitable" | ||
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| date || location || event | | date || location || event | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 26 Jan 1969 am || [[wikipedia:Jabalpur | Jabalpur]] || [[Naye Bharat Ka Janm ~ 01]] [[Talk:Naye Bharat Ka Janm (नये भारत का जन्म)|**]] ( नये भारत का जन्म ) | | 26 Jan 1969 am || Anjuman Islamia High School, [[wikipedia:Jabalpur | Jabalpur]] || [[Naye Bharat Ka Janm ~ 01]] [[Talk:Naye Bharat Ka Janm (नये भारत का जन्म)|**]] ( नये भारत का जन्म ) | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 30 Jan 1969 || [[wikipedia:Mumbai |Bombay]] || [[ | | 30 Jan 1969 pm || Ruia College, [[wikipedia:Mumbai |Bombay]] || [[Trisha Gai Ek Boond Se ~ 01]] [[Talk:Shanti Ki Khoj (शांति की खोज) (discourses)|**]] ( शांति की खोज / The Search for Peace ) | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 31 Jan 1969 am || [[wikipedia:Mumbai |Bombay]] || [[Naye Bharat Ka Janm ~ 02]] [[Talk:Naye Bharat Ka Janm (नये भारत का जन्म)|**]] ( नये भारत का जन्म ) | | 31 Jan 1969 am || [[wikipedia:Mumbai |Bombay]] || [[Naye Bharat Ka Janm ~ 02]] [[Talk:Naye Bharat Ka Janm (नये भारत का जन्म)|**]] ( नये भारत का जन्म ) | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 31 Jan 1969 || [[wikipedia:Mumbai |Bombay]] || [[ | | 31 Jan 1969 pm || Ruia College, [[wikipedia:Mumbai |Bombay]] || [[Trisha Gai Ek Boond Se ~ 02]] [[Talk:Shanti Ki Khoj (शांति की खोज) (discourses)|**]] ( शांति की खोज / The Search for Peace ) | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 1 Feb 1969 || [[wikipedia:Mumbai |Bombay]] || [[ | | 1 Feb 1969 om [[Glossary#am om pm xm|**]] || [[wikipedia:Mumbai |Bombay]] || [[Kya Sove Tu Bavri ~ 01]] [[Talk:Kya Sove Tu Bavri (क्या सोवे तू बावरी)|**]] ( क्या सोवे तू बावरी ) | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 1 Feb 1969 || [[wikipedia:Mumbai |Bombay]] || [[ | | 1 Feb 1969 pm || Ruia College, [[wikipedia:Mumbai |Bombay]] || [[Trisha Gai Ek Boond Se ~ 03]] [[Talk:Shanti Ki Khoj (शांति की खोज) (discourses)|**]] ( शांति की खोज / The Search for Peace ) | ||
|- | |- | ||
| 2 Feb 1969 || [[wikipedia:Mumbai |Bombay]] || [[ | | 2 Feb 1969 pm || Ruia College, [[wikipedia:Mumbai |Bombay]] || [[Trisha Gai Ek Boond Se ~ 04]] [[Talk:Shanti Ki Khoj (शांति की खोज) (discourses)|**]] ( शांति की खोज / The Search for Peace ) | ||
|} | |} | ||
The first potential conflict, on Jan 26, is not difficult. The Timeline event in Jabalpur is in the morning and Pipariya is not prohibitively far, an easy drive. Getting from Jabalpur on Jan 29th to Mumbai on the 30th is also not difficult. | The first potential conflict, on Jan 26, is not difficult. The Timeline event in Jabalpur is in the morning and Pipariya is not prohibitively far, an easy drive. Getting from Jabalpur on Jan 29th to Mumbai on the 30th is also not difficult. | ||
But getting back to Jabalpur for a talk Feb 2 after one the | But getting back to Jabalpur for a talk Feb 2 after one the previous evening in Mumbai and then back for another one in Mumbai the evening of the 2nd would be fairly difficult. He would have to fly twice, not a common occurrence in those days but not impossible. But it would also be unlikely anyway, just on the basis of practicality. Why set up a situation like that? Possibly the Feb 2 talk was scheduled but cancelled and/or re-scheduled. | ||
We | We could also consider other years for these dates. 1968, 1966 and 1965 have prohibitive conflicts (early Feb was a popular time for camps). 1970 has no conflicts and is possible. After that, Osho's travels become much more focused and circumscribed, and not really possible. But 1967 is more than just possible: it has no conflicts, and even turns out to have a positive alignment, albeit with a recently added event from [[Manuscripts ~ Reports Timeline Extraction|another Manuscripts Timeline Extraction]], Feb 4-6 in Shrirampur. The relative lack of independence of these two sources might make their agreement not as impressive as would two independent sources, but even a mini-agreement is attractive in the context of 1969's problems. | ||
1969's one serious conflict could be resolved by Osho flying (twice) or the Jabalpur event cancelled, by no means impossible, but still really too much of a stretch when there is a decent other possibility. So 1967 it is for now. | |||
[[Category:Source Documents]] | [[Category:Source Documents]] | ||
[[Category:Manuscripts]] [[Category:Manuscript texts]] |
Latest revision as of 15:14, 23 September 2022
A correspondent has shared his research into Category:Manuscripts. Some of Osho's early writings have turned out to be fact-based accounts of his travels, speeches, and the events of the time. The research is organized into several batches, corresponding to the particular groups of manuscripts where info was found. All info presented is annotated, ie which sheet of the manuscripts it derives from is clearly indicated, so one can also study them for oneself. In some cases, Osho's notes contain the full text of early unpublished discourses, though not in this batch.
This batch, the second in the series, derives from a small group of just three pages at Manuscripts ~ Programmes. It is particularly short but concentrated, mostly a schedule of talks running from Apr 25 to Aug 10 and another small group from Jan 26 to Feb 6. These manuscripts do not include the year, as it was not needed for Osho's notes about his program for a few months. Comparison with existing Timelines makes 1968 look reasonably likely for the time frame for the first two pages, which are flip sides of each other. The other page, containing notes about the short period from Jan 26 to Feb 6, was thought at first to "continue" from the first two into 1969 but it now appears likelier that it is from 1967. This lack of connectedness from one paper in a group with another has happened in other batches; it is something to be alert about. See the Analysis below for details on all this.
Other batches in this series are: (1) Manuscripts ~ Messages Timeline Extraction and (3) Manuscripts ~ Reports Timeline Extraction.
Related to these manuscripts is a collection of five Notebooks written by Osho's cousin and secretary in Jabalpur, Arvind Kumar Jain. These contain more notes on Osho's activities in parts of the 60s. Our correspondent has dug into these as well, and a similar Notebooks Timeline Extraction has been created from these endeavours.
Dates | Event Description and Notes | Wiki Notes, Comments |
---|---|---|
Sheet 1R -- (Probable year 1968) | see Analysis below for details | |
Apr 26 om | Delhi, "Vichargoshthi" | "Vichargoshthi" translates variously as seminar, symposium, etc |
Apr 28 pm | Jabalpur - Shahid Smarak Bhawan - Lecture | |
May 2 - 5 | Nargol - Meditation camp | Precisely these dates at Nargol are already in Osho Timeline 1968 |
May 6 pm | Bombay- Lecture to Progressive group at Bhartiya Vidhya Bhawan | also in Osho Timeline 1968 |
May 7 am | Bombay - Jain Social Group – Lecture at Birla Kreeda Kendra (7th May, 61 he was at Jabalpur as per Notebook Vol 1) | |
May 15 pm | Poona - Spring Lecture series | |
May 17 am | Poona - Lecture at Antarbharti (16th to 23 May 63 he was at Gadarwara, as per Notebook Vol 2) | |
May 18 - 20 | Junagadh - meditation camp | |
May 20 om | Saurashtra - Discussions with Jeevan Jagriti Kendra workers | see below |
Jun 9 - 11 | Udaipur – Meditation camp | |
Jun 11 om | Udaipur - Lecture at Rajasthan teachers' conference | Udaipur not explicitly mentioned but inferred |
Jun 21 pm | Porbandar Rotary Club | |
Jun 21 - 23 | Porbandar - satsangs | |
Sheet 1V -- | clearly continuing from Sheet 1R | |
Jun 23 om | Porbandar, Lecture At Girls boarding school. | |
Jul 3 - 5 | huge Satsang in Bhavnagar | |
Jul 3 om | massive gathering of women in Bhavnagar | |
Jul 5 om | Bhavnagar - Lecture to Teachers and students | |
Jul 20 - 23 | Indore – Knowledge session at Ravindranath Tagore Dance Theatre | |
Jul 20 om | Indore – Discussion with Jeevan Jagriti Kendra workers | |
(Probably) Jul 21 | Indore Discussion with young News Reporters (At press club-Probably) | Date and "press club" not mentioned in manuscript |
(Probably) Jul 22 | Indore Lecture to large gathering of students | Date not mentioned in manuscript |
Aug 7 pm | Gadarwara – Lecture | |
Aug 8 pm | Gadarwara - "Vichargoshthi" | |
Aug 10 pm | Jabalpur - Lecture at Shahid Smarak Bhawan (10th Oct, 30th September also) | |
(Manuscripts ~ Messages – contains record from 30th Sept to 14th October, It may be this period then it is 1968 or 1969+ if beyond this time or before this time as notebook form was maintained in some period) | ||
Sheet 2 -- | early 1967? See Analysis below. | |
Jan 26 | Pipariya - Lecture at "people's gathering". | |
Jan 29 | Jabalpur – Lecture at Vishva Maitri Sangh (World friendship organisation) | |
Feb 2 | Jabalpur – Lecture at Technical School | |
Feb 4 - 6 | Shrirampur - "Satsang" |
Analysis
About our correspondent's "probably" speculations regarding certain of the facts about Indore, there is no basis for them in the manuscripts, but no harm in accepting them conditionally with a .
About the talk with JJK workers at or in "Saurashtra" in the afternoon, this is indeed what the transcription says, but there is a jarring note with respect to the Timeline, where this precise time indicates a "normal" camp discourse in Junagarh/Junagadh, "Mati Kahai Kumhar Sun ~ 03". This is not much of a problem though. Saurashtra is an area of Gujarat which contains Junagadh, and a workers' talk would likely have taken place during the camp, so probably a detail of timing has been scrambled, and either the om for the workers' talk or the om for the Mati Kahai talk should be an am.
- 3rd Mati was given on 20 May 1968 afternoon, see Talk:Mati Kahai Kumhar Sun (माटी कहै कुम्हार सूं).
About Pipariya, Wikipedia has no less than three of them in Madhya Pradesh. The largest is in Hoshangabad Dist, so it will get the nod.
The main event here concerns nailing the year.
Evidence for 1968 being the year applying to the dates in Sheets 1R and 1V is fairly compelling. First, there is no conflicting info, eg dates when he is in Mumbai in the existing Timeline and in Gadarwara in the above, though of course the absence of conflicting info does not by itself prove anything. It is merely essential, but not conclusive. However, the two matchups, the Nargol camp from May 2 to 5 and the talk in Bhartiya Vidhya Bhawan the next night, are conclusive. There are not going to be two Nargol camps on May 2-5 in different years. There is one quibble with the May 6 event: the date and venue match up but the nature of the audience does not exactly. But there is plenty of wiggle room to not have to worry about that.
It has been observed, especially in Manuscripts ~ Messages Timeline Extraction, that establishing the year for one sheet does not necessarily establish it for the next in any given group. They may be random bits of paper thrown together. Here, let's see ...
First, Sheets 1R and 1V are not randomly thrown together, they are Recto and Verso, flip sides of each other. And the dates and places in 1V are clearly a continuation of those in 1R. A no-brainer.
But Sheet 2 is another matter. It will be more difficult to fit it into the 1969 Timeline, where it was first thought to belong. Reproduced below is the relevant section of that timeline.
date | location | event |
26 Jan 1969 am | Anjuman Islamia High School, Jabalpur | Naye Bharat Ka Janm ~ 01 ** ( नये भारत का जन्म ) |
30 Jan 1969 pm | Ruia College, Bombay | Trisha Gai Ek Boond Se ~ 01 ** ( शांति की खोज / The Search for Peace ) |
31 Jan 1969 am | Bombay | Naye Bharat Ka Janm ~ 02 ** ( नये भारत का जन्म ) |
31 Jan 1969 pm | Ruia College, Bombay | Trisha Gai Ek Boond Se ~ 02 ** ( शांति की खोज / The Search for Peace ) |
1 Feb 1969 om ** | Bombay | Kya Sove Tu Bavri ~ 01 ** ( क्या सोवे तू बावरी ) |
1 Feb 1969 pm | Ruia College, Bombay | Trisha Gai Ek Boond Se ~ 03 ** ( शांति की खोज / The Search for Peace ) |
2 Feb 1969 pm | Ruia College, Bombay | Trisha Gai Ek Boond Se ~ 04 ** ( शांति की खोज / The Search for Peace ) |
The first potential conflict, on Jan 26, is not difficult. The Timeline event in Jabalpur is in the morning and Pipariya is not prohibitively far, an easy drive. Getting from Jabalpur on Jan 29th to Mumbai on the 30th is also not difficult.
But getting back to Jabalpur for a talk Feb 2 after one the previous evening in Mumbai and then back for another one in Mumbai the evening of the 2nd would be fairly difficult. He would have to fly twice, not a common occurrence in those days but not impossible. But it would also be unlikely anyway, just on the basis of practicality. Why set up a situation like that? Possibly the Feb 2 talk was scheduled but cancelled and/or re-scheduled.
We could also consider other years for these dates. 1968, 1966 and 1965 have prohibitive conflicts (early Feb was a popular time for camps). 1970 has no conflicts and is possible. After that, Osho's travels become much more focused and circumscribed, and not really possible. But 1967 is more than just possible: it has no conflicts, and even turns out to have a positive alignment, albeit with a recently added event from another Manuscripts Timeline Extraction, Feb 4-6 in Shrirampur. The relative lack of independence of these two sources might make their agreement not as impressive as would two independent sources, but even a mini-agreement is attractive in the context of 1969's problems.
1969's one serious conflict could be resolved by Osho flying (twice) or the Jabalpur event cancelled, by no means impossible, but still really too much of a stretch when there is a decent other possibility. So 1967 it is for now.