Talk:Naye Bharat Ki Khoj (नये भारत की खोज)
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Current Understanding
| event | audio, OshoWorld |
audio, Osho.com (*1) |
2012 book edition (*1) | Shailendra's PDF | Oshoganga (*2) | Dates & Places |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Naye Bharat Ki Khoj ~ 01 | #1 | 1. आत्मघाती पलायनवाद | 1. आत्मघाती पलायनवाद | 1. आत्मघाती पलायनवाद | 1. आत्मघाती पलायनवाद 4 May 1969 morning, Poona |
4 May 1969 am, Poona (*2) |
| Naye Bharat Ki Khoj ~ 02 | #2 | 2. वैज्ञानिक चिंतन की हवा | 2. वैज्ञानिक चिंतन की हवा | 2. वैज्ञानिक चिंतन की हवा | 2. वैज्ञानिक चिंतन की हवा 4 May 1969 night, Poona |
4 May 1969 pm, Poona (*2) |
| Naye Bharat Ki Khoj ~ 03 | #3 | 3. आत्मघाती परंपरावाद | 4. आत्मघाती परंपरावाद | 3. आत्मघाती परंपरावाद | 3. आत्मघाती परंपरावाद 5 May 1969 morning, Poona |
5 May 1969 am, Poona (*2) |
| Naye Bharat Ki Khoj ~ 04 | #4 | 4. असली और नकली का फर्क | 4. असली और नकली का फर्क | 4. (no title, no date stated) | 5 May 1969 pm, Poona (*2) | |
| Naye Bharat Ki Khoj ~ 05 | #5 | 5. आत्मघाती आदर्शवाद | 3. आत्मघाती आदर्शवाद | 5. आत्मघाती आदर्शवाद | 5. आत्मघाती आदर्शवाद 6 May 1969 morning, Poona |
6 May 1969 am, Poona (*2) |
| Naye Bharat Ki Khoj ~ 06 | #6 | 6. हिंसक राजनीतिज्ञ | 5. हिंसक राजनीतिज्ञ | 6. हिंसक राजनीतिज्ञ | 6. हिंसक राजनीतिज्ञ 6 May 1969 night, Poona |
6 May 1969 pm, Poona (*2) |
| Naye Bharat Ki Khoj ~ 07 | #7 beginning incomplete |
7. कुछ और | 7. कुछ और | 7. कुछ और beginning incomplete |
7. (no title) beginning incomplete 6 May 1969, Poona |
6 May 1969 om**, Poona (*2) |
| Dekh Kabira Roya ~ 15 | Dekh Kabira Roya #15 missing beginning and at least first half of last question |
Dekh Kabira Roya 7. भौतिक समृद्धि: अध्यात्म का आधार missing beginning and at least first half of last question |
6. अच्छे लोग और अहित |
|
|
5 May 1970, Nargol |
Note: the series is not available in osho.com library.
- (*1) These sources compared on the basis of their titles only, while other sources compared by their contents (text).
- (*2) Sources of dates and places: Oshoganga and Osho's Appointment Diary 1967-1970 (translated source document). Clues in text confirmes place Poona.
- Letter written on 12 Dec 1968 (Sohan) states previous plan: 8-9 May. The letter was written 5 months before and the plan could be changed. Osho's Itinerary agrees on dates from the letter.
Deliberations
- 2014
Nothing much to add except some amusing bits found in the e-book version. At the beginning of each chapter is the following:
टक्स गिवन इन पुना इंदिया
दिस्कोर्स नं०
This transliterates -- not translates -- to:
"taksa givana ina Puna India
Diskorsa nan0", followed by a Devanagari numeral corresponding to the chapter number.
Then at the very end: वाचक--सारा मुल्क ऐसा है । हमारा माईड ऐसा है . . . Which translates to "Reader - the whole country is like that. Our maid is like that . . ." -- Sarlo (talk) 13:58, 29 July 2014 (PDT)
- Audiobook TOC's
2014, from Osho World: - 1. आत्मघाती पलायनवाद ==> 1
- 2. वैज्ञानिक चिंतन की हवा ==> 2
- 3. आत्मघाती आदर्शवाद ==> 5
- 4. आत्मघाती परंपरावाद ==> 3
- 5. हिंसक राजनीतिज्ञ ==> 6
- 6. अच्छे लोग और अहित not in o.com
- 7. कुछ और ==> 7
2017, from o.com: - 1. आत्मघाती पलायनवाद ==> 1
- 2. वैज्ञानिक चिंतन की हवा ==> 2
- 3. आत्मघाती परंपरावाद ==> 4
- 4. असली और नकली का फर्क not in OW
- 5. आत्मघाती आदर्शवाद ==> 3
- 6. हिंसक राजनीतिज्ञ ==> 5
- 7. कुछ और ==> 7
In 2014, only the e-book and OW's audiobook were looked at. In 2017, the story has got more complex. Osho.com also has an audiobook offering of seven mp3's for this series and the kicker is that they are not all the same as OW's. The order is different and there is one title in each not found in the other.
This last fact is actually a blessing since it enables a correction of the total number of talks from seven to eight. In fact, o.com says there are eight but the eighth is unavailable. Well there it is, over at OW. How cool is that!? -- doofus-9 09:02, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
First 7 titles in Shailendra's e-book are the same as o.com's version + ch.8 अच्छे लोग और अहित.
There is chapter 8? O.com 8th audio mentioned as 'not available'. Shailendra's e-book has text of this chapter, which almost dublicates ch.15 (of 30) of Dekh Kabira Roya (देख कबीरा रोया) : except first question and first line of answer to it. Chapter title of Dekh Kabira Roya is different.--DhyanAntar 08:04, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
The list "Hindi-Diamond" from Shailendra states on existing an earlier edition before Diamond one.--DhyanAntar 17:28, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
Last Diamond edition, which presented in wiki with image of pub info, is unknown year. It looks as reprint more early Diamond edition. We do not have contents of this edition, but what it is interesting is mentioning about "original book is Kahai Kabir Diwana (कहै कबीर दीवाना), ch.1-5, which is obvious error.--updated,--DhyanAntar 16:01, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
Extracts from Shailendra's PDFs (with rough translation):
- ch.1: first talk. "India is escapist to its problems, escapist. There is no problem, he says. The world is illusion."
- Ends by "Hence the first sutra: Life is real; Body is real; The substance is real. All the problems of life are real. And those who say that life is illusion, they say wrong, because they do not show the way to solve life. Arrange to get drunk in life, drink opium. And till we ask these people, till the talent of India will be asked by the monks, then India has been defeated again and again, defeated again and again, miserable again and again. Gaya, the bet is going to be paid even further. We do not have to ask the sage, not the people who have run away from life, the scientific talent that has emerged in the struggle of life, what is the solution? What is the solution? And if she is not a genius, we will have to produce her. That talent is born, how can it be, I will talk to you on those sources tomorrow morning and day after tomorrow. Whatever questions you have in this regard, you will give them in writing, so that evening can be said."
- ch.2: q/a. Starts by "Many questions have been asked regarding the morning discussion."
- "If there is a tree in Poona and all the people are told, do not eat the fruits of this tree, and eat it all, then all the trees will become useless, all the people will be going towards the same tree that they should eat the fruit and see that What is the matter?"
- In the end: "And questions remain, I will talk tomorrow. Tomorrow morning I will also talk on the sources of the day after tomorrow. Questions related to them will be discussed in their morning sources."
- ch.3: morning talk. "Why do I want to start with this? Because while thinking about the problems of India and the talent of India, the second source, one source said yesterday, Escapism, escapism has proved to be the suicides of India's talent. (Reference to ch.1) The second source I want to say today: Traditionalism, Traditionalism. It has not allowed India's talent to develop. Problems change every day and solutions do not change us. Solutions are our eternal."
- In the end: "This is the second sutra: the one who is bound by archaic is a fake man. One who is bound by the past is afraid. And a scared man can never be real, authentic, authentic. The soul of India is no longer authentic, it is not authentic, it has become unnatural. And then the second as much unnaturalness has been born, it is born from this. And until this basic illiteracy is not erased, then no other illiteracy can be erased, because it is its by-product, it has come from her. Tomorrow morning I will talk to you on the third thread."
- ch.4: q/a. Starts by "A friend has asked: In the morning I said, all men are fake, those friends have asked who is fake? Who is real? How do we recognize?" (Reference to ch.3)
- In the end: "Based on these few questions, I said something. There are some more questions left, I will talk about them tomorrow evening. Tomorrow morning, I will talk on the final thread that where there is a problem in stopping India's problems and its talent, where is the stone, where is the wall."
- ch.5: talk on last, third day, starts by "In the last two days, I have talked about India's problems and our talent, some things in this regard. On the first sutra on the first day, I said that India's talent has remained undeveloped, due to migration, escapism. We have learned to escape and escape from life, not to live life... (Reference to ch.1)
- "The other day I said that the second thing has become an obstacle in the development of India's talent and that is traditionalism, traditionalism. (Reference to ch.3) The Conservative mind always looks backwards, it does not have eyes on the front. Problems come from the front and solutions to the traditionalist mind come from behind... Let me make this clear with a short story and then talk to you on the third thread."
- "...In the third sutra, I want to tell you, whatever society will be idealistic, that society will rot, it will die, that society cannot grow. There should be a realistic society. Talent is developed through the path of realism, not through the path of idealism. He who is an idealist, talks about the sky and the problems are of the land. And his words sound very good. But they belong to the sky. And the solution is needed on earth, and it has nothing to do with the earth."
- in the end: "In these three days, in these three sutras, from exodus, from tradition and from ideal, I asked to be freed from these three. If these three stones are removed, then the source of India's talent is freed, he started running towards India's Sarita Sagar. But if these three stones stop the sarita of India's talent, then we have become a puddle, who does not run, does not walk, does not reach anywhere. Rotting, rotting, dirt goes on growing, disease goes on growing. Sickness, wounds go on and on, pus goes on collecting, foul smell keeps on spreading. And we close all our eyes, Maya, Maya; Lies, lies; Close your eyes and keep searching for satisfaction. It cannot be with this satisfaction, this stream will have to be broken, it will have to be oriented towards the ocean, so that one day man rises from the animal and reaches the divine.
- "The temple of God is near, but forgetting the animal, not by lying; By knowing the animal, identifying it. From transcendence, from his encroachment. And knowledge is the way to transcendence. Knowing is the method of transcendence, of transcendence. Ignorance is suicide. Knowledge is self-revolution."
- "There is a six thousand year old book in China and if you read its intoduction, it would feel like an editorial was written in a daily newspaper in Poona."
- "If there are five lakh men in Poona and one man becomes healthy, then it is okay, but what will happen?"
- ch.6: q/a, last talk. Starts by "Based on the discussions of these three days, many questions have been asked by friends."
- "And in India, you know when the war has not happened. Did not happen after the Mahabharata. Five thousand years at least, and the Mahabharata also happened to say that it is very difficult. The destruction that took place from the war of Mahabharata, has not yet been completed. Still go to Poona, search the street, find a house that will be built in the era of Mahabharata, in which the Kaurava-Pandavas will be staying. You will definitely find the place where Ramchandra ji would have gone. And where Sita ji would have stayed, under which tree, it would surely be in Poona. They are everywhere. They do not disappear."
- ch.7: q/a, can be intimate or informal talk.
- "If a good man thinks that this man does not die of hunger, he does not know that it is right. And pressure will start falling on you from all sides, the whole Poona will say that a man is dying, what are you messing with?"
- ch.8: q/a. Also intimate talk?
First 6 chapters look as in chrono. order and related to each other, i.e. one series. "Poona" mentioned eight times in ch.2-3, 6-7, which can be confirmation Oshoganga's data.--DhyanAntar 15:57, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
