Talk:Osho Timeline 1970

obsolete stuff deleted

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Oct 1 entries: -- 1 Oct 1970 / Bombay, India (English) (Dynamics of Meditation, # 7 and # 10) -- is not supported by CD ROM, nor, it would seem, by reality, though it may be in some book. Makes dates in books less sacrosanct.

This letter -- 1 Oct 1970 / (Hindi) (Prem Ke Phool / Flowers of Love, # 95) -- may also be suspect. doofus-9 (talk) 10:28, 22 November 2014 (PST)

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Okay, "Dynamics of Meditation" entry has been changed. Formerly it read:

1 Oct 1970 / Mumbai(Bombay), India (English)

Dynamics of Meditation, # 7 and # 10

This, as said above, did not work, since it was right in the middle of the camp in Manali where Osho gave sannyas to the first group. The "truth" of this entry has now sort of been found, in Sugit's spreadsheet for Dynamics. There are no chapters in that spreadsheet dated Oct 1 1970. Chapter 7 is dated only Oct 1970, no day, and chapter 10 Nov 1970, no day, so the entry in the 1970 timeline has been appropriately updated. -- doofus-9 (talk) 17:58, 23 January 2015 (PST)

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Speaking of 1970 and following years: For "29 Nov 1970 am" I read "Gita Darshan Vol 1 / Gita Darshan, # 1". What do these two designations refer to exactly? Apparently not the book, but also not the mp3's. (Sarlo) proposes to use "inserting talks dates as given by Doc X". Do I see right that this has not been implemented here? (I am in the process of trying to tag OW's Hindi mp3's with dates.)

Btw maybe we could use adhyaya in stead of Vol as a name of the parts. This adheres more to the subject of the talks. (The only hitch with this that the first 18 are on adhyayas 1 & 2.)

And a separate question: any comment on the use of "Gita" (as used in this wiki as a standard) and "Geeta" as used by e.g. OW for their mp3-naming ? --Sugit (talk) 08:04, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

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Such dating in the timeline as can be done, ie with clear and uncontested info, has been done. Until we find a new source (which may also have its issues and therefore need to be sifted and weighed against other sources), we will likely not be able to proceed further. Audio could be a source, if, say, Hindi audios were given an introduction (captioned as it were) by another voice announcing time and place, but i believe all the audios available these days have had that info removed by OIF (ever helpful).

"Vol" rather than "adhyaya" is the terminology used by Doc X and Neeten and the audio sites. In the absence of hard copy or another new source using the term adhyaya, it doesn't seem like such a good idea to leap into that. Existing hard copy with legible cover images uses the term भाग (Bhag, meaning part, as is done for many Hindi titles), see Gita Darshan, Bhag 1 (गीता दर्शन, भाग एक) for example, but our English convention seems to lean more to Vol, not entirely consistently. (And no commas in the cover img either.)

Basically, Gita Darshan, with its 8- and 18-vol systems is a mess, and may have to stay that way for a while. (And yes, 18 is really 17 in terms of purported actual countable book volumes, since #1 and #2 are always thrown together in every reckoning.)

About "Gita Darshan Bhag 1 / Gita Darshan, # 1", it is like this to go along with the wiki system of Hindi title first, without the Devanagari, followed by English translation title, with ch #. In some places, Hindi and English ch #s will be different, so both will be entered separately. In the case of Gita Darshan, titles are identical in Hindi and English, so there appears to be a kind of duplication, but it is not.

-- above Gita Bhag-vs-Vol portion of discussion updated as of Nov 9 2015 to reflect new multi-vol nomenclature, now all Hindi "Vols" gone over to "Bhags". -- doofus/Sarlo

And about "Gita" vs "Geeta", Hindi transliteration is an inconsistent business. Uniform standards do not exist. And it appears that Indians are usually not very fussy about that, so either could be used without offending anyone. The reasons for preferring Gita over Geeta include: 1) This is the version used by Videh and Chidananda on the cover of their translation. 2) Gita is used far more often when referring to Bhagavad Gita/Geeta, the source doc. 3) That's the way the wiki has used it since day one, and changing it would be a lot of work. 4) Geeta is used more often, though also not consistently, for Indian women's names. -- doofus-9 (talk) 16:45, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

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OK, anyway, for the tagging of our Hindi lectures I am trying to stick as much as possible to wiki usage.

Let me just add: what an amazing Work you guys did with identifying the Hindi lectures! --Sugit (talk) 08:55, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

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Ceterum autem censeo we need an Archive Code / Lecture ID system to identify all events/discourses/meditations/letters/manuscripts.

Best would be to keep the ArchiveCode system of the CD-ROM, but extending it for Hindi talks, for which new Archive codes must be devised. (We already did that for the Hindi audio, in so far as possible.)

And including an unequivocal system for talks outside the 0=am 5=pm format. That is including a system to identify lectures with parts in Hindi and English, which appear as different chapters in FES books. (The Hindi and English could get different identifiers, like -1/6=Hindi and -2/7=English.) And including a system to identify for Osho conducting a meditation, often after a regular lecture. (Could get a -3/8.)

A complicating factor for this project may be that the CD-ROM does use the codes 3 and 7 at times, somewhat rarely but still enough to be notable. Whether it is useful or even possible to align with those usages (apparently 3 for early pm, 5 for normal pm and 7 for late pm) you'll have to decide. It does not seem possible to search the CD-ROM for these codes, eg for *3 in Field acode, but one example is the four talks on 3 May 1970 in Jin Khoja Tin Paiyan (जिन खोजा तिन पाइयां). The CD-ROM has furthermore coined new time-of-day abbrs to correspond with 3 and 7, and they are om and xm. Some entries in various years' Timelines reflect this, though only the om, not xm. And this is roughly paralleled in the CD-ROM in that one can scroll through the "Field" vocabulary and see a fair number of 3s but perhaps no 7s if you blink in May 1970. Perhaps the updated Folio will allow this kind of search.

Good luck with it! -- doofus-9 06:26, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

What also needs to be researched is situations like on the Ranch, Bombay and Kulu Manali, where there can be several interviews over the day. The names now in use for The Last Testament and Interviews Rajneeshpuram unpublished and Press Conferences are already a mess. --Sugit (talk) 13:26, 9 August 2015 (UTC) and --Sugit (talk) 13:31, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

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The lines for 28 Sep 1970 pm and 2 Oct 1970 pm maybe duplicated by accident? --Sugit (talk) 15:24, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

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why would they be duplicates? they are separate discourses (held on the same day as it were).--Rudra (talk) 15:22, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

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you must have somehow edited an old cached version of this page. see http://www.sannyas.org/index.php?title=Talk%3AOsho_Discourses_1970&diff=55286&oldid=55285 for what i actually said. --Rudra (talk) 22:48, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

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Funny, indeed somehow a cashed copy, but seems not at my computer, as I did not see any of your text above before.

Anyway, both the lines of 28 Sep 1970 pm and 2 Oct 1970 pm had exact copies of themselves, including with the same discourse name and #. See [1]. So not separate discourses.

I removed the one for 2 Oct and used the one for 28 Sep for a newly found discourse. --Sugit (talk) 11:07, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

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About the Interview allegedly on 26 Aug 1970 at C.C.I. Chambers ("Early Dialogues, #3") -- should be "Early Talks #3" but that's another story -- there is conflicting info about a camp including that date from Gyan Bhed, either in Baroda or Jalandhar. For now the interview (per CD-ROM) must be considered more likely, but the CD-ROM is not infallible. -- doofus-9 16:20, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

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(Regards the post above: so this title "Early Dialogues" has now been changed to "Early Talks": see Talk:Osho Events.) --Sugit (talk) 05:05, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

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There is reason to believe Krishna: The Man and His Philosophy, # 22 was before discourse #7 in 28 September. Ch.7 was "pm" and Archive Code agree with that.

But for ch.22 Archive Code is 7009283 (om), and the date mentioned on CD-ROM - 28 September 1970 pm.

Hovewer chapter 22 is introduced with: "This event was followed by this special evening discourse, on the significance of Neo Sannyas.

Does the Archive Code is incorrect?--DhyanAntar 15:02, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

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i doubt it. when they talk of "evening" they probably mean "early evening" ie 5pm in front of the first sannyasins, followed by the usual discourse later at night in front of the whole camp audience. so i think the sequence is ok as it is now.--Rudra 07:23, 15 January 2018 (UTC)