Talk:Samajvad Arthat Atmaghat (समाजवाद अर्थात् आत्मघात)

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The "Samajvad" of this book and the "Samajwad" of Samajwad Se Savdhan are of course the same word, just slightly differently transliterated. They seem to be inconsistent but reflect commonest net usage and findability each for their own cases.

Some of the info that follows (underlined) is inaccurate and out-of-date, or at least misleading, concerning this book's relationship with Swarn Pakhi and the location where Osho gave the discourses. Corrective notes (indented like this one) will be inserted in context below.

There is a fairly tight thematic unity in the quartet of books that is Swarn Pakhi. This book's title is fully in synch with Samajwad Se Savdhan ("Beware of Socialism"), and Bharat Ke Jalte Prashan ("India's Burning Questions") is right up there as well.

The situation, briefly, is this: When this page was written, Swarn Pakhi Tha Jo Kabhi Aur Ab Hai Bhikhari Jagat Ka (स्वर्ण पाखी था जो कभी और अब है भिखारी जगत का) was seen as the master title for a collection of four books, including an earlier and smaller volume also called Swarn Pakhi. It is now believed that that earlier volume never existed, and even as a master title for the two Samajvad books plus Jalte, plus ten single-discourse booklets, it has had only a limited run. For a more complete account of this, see Swarn Pakhi's Talk page. -- doofus-9 06:15, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

We'll see how Swarn Pakhi itself works out; overall, it fits well with Osho's pattern of demolishing the dominant political paradigm of the time and place. Neeten's Osho Source Book has a great deal about how that played out in the time of these books. He alienated both the committed and the hypocritical Gandhians, which pushed the Gujarati State gov't to retract an offer of land for an ashram and had all kinds of repercussions.


Neeten's Appendix page is loaded with factual information about Osho's early work, but still in rough form (as of this writing) and not all confirmed for accuracy. When we come to Swarn Pakhi, the über-series, we find the info below, which may be useful if adapted with a little inspiration:

There is only one entry for Swarn Pakhi per se, a single date, Apr 1, 1970 in Bombay. We may suppose that this is one of its discourses, which may be scattered around on different dates, or may be all in one chunk, since there is a decent-size gap following that time (see Osho Timeline 1970). There IS a talk the day before, Mar 31, in Jabalpur, which may or may not be a conflict.

There is stronger info about the other parts of the series, but there are snags there too: There are three entries for Samajvad Se Savdhan, enough for the three other volumes of Swarn Pakhi, and as if that were the über-name. In any case, it is not much of a stretch to take these three entries to refer to the first three volumes, especially as they correspond well regarding discourse counts (5, 5 and 4). The relevant section of the appendix reads:

Samajwad Se Savdhaan. 13-17.03.1970. 5 talks. Bombay. [(Bharat Ke Jalte Prashna (भारत के जलते प्रश्न))]
Vidroh Kya Hai? 31.03.1970. [the talk in Jabalpur]
Swarn Pakhi Tha Jo Kabhi (India, Socialism, Gandhi, Communism). 01.04.1970. Bombay. (A)
Samajvaad Se Saavdhan. 13.04-17.04.1970. [(The real Samajvad Se Savdhan (समाजवाद से सावधान))]
[ . . . ]
Samajwad Se Savdhaan. 08-11.08.1970. 4 talks. [(Samajvad Arthat Atmaghat (समाजवाद अर्थात् आत्मघात))]

At this point we are in surmise-land, not really proven TRVTH, but it looks good enough for a provisional go, so allons-y. Neeten did not have a location for the talks for Atmaghat. That comes fortuitously from the Hindi blurb for the book. -- updated doofus-9 (talk) 07:19, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

At that time, the source of that blurb was osho.com's blurb for their audiobook offering for this series Atmaghat. In it, they mentioned Ahmednagar as the location, which turns out to have been incorrect.

प्रवचन (TOC):
1. समाजवाद क्या—सिर्फ राजनी‍ति है!
2. समाजवाद : दासता की एक व्यवस्था
3. पूंजीवाद : ज्यादा मानवीय व्यवस्था
4. लोकशाही समाजवाद : एक भ्रांत धारणा

(audio discourse titles, presumed to align with chapter titles)


The Hindi description has been changed to be more "relevant", in the sense that it actually clarifies the meaning of the title. The old one was copied and pasted from osho.com without much consideration, although it did contain the helpful information about talks being in Ahmednagar. Today the current description was found as osho.com's blurb for Samajvad Se Savdhan (समाजवाद से सावधान), where it is also now serving as the wiki's description for that book.

The new description translates roughly as "If capitalism is well developed then socialism is its natural result. If there is a nine month pregnancy then the child is born smoothly and quietly. If capitalism is not developed properly then socialism is suicidal."

Curiously, the old description is still there for this book at osho.com, but minus the helpful info about Ahmednagar. Only the poetic and -- so it now seems -- wildly irrelevant words about simplicity and samadhi remain there. -- doofus-9 17:47, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

And of course, now that the location has been corrected to Ahmedabad, it is easy to see why the Ahmednagar info was removed. -- doofus-9 06:15, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

Dates 8-11.08.70 confirmed by Hindi series of talks with dates (source document).--DhyanAntar 05:43, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Dates also confirmed by 1979ed. of Bharat Ke Jalte Prashna (भारत के जलते प्रश्न) (1 talk per day, place - Ahmedabad).--DhyanAntar 07:49, 21 July 2020 (UTC)