The Last Testament (Vol 2) ~ 28

event type	interview
date & time	19 Sep 1985 pm
location	Sanai Grove, Rajneeshpuram
language	English
audio	Available, duration 1h 46min. Quality: good. Live music after the interview.
online audio	free download from OshoWorld purchase from Osho.com
video	Available, duration 1h 49min. Quality: good.
online video
see also	timeline : Osho Timeline 1985 first edition : The Last Testament (Vol 2) (1994 on CD-ROM) other editions, translations and links
online text	find the PDF of this discourse
shorttitle	LAST228

notes

synopsis: Interview. Announcements by Ma Prem Hasya : (name inaudible); CD-ROM on this chapter: Interview with Quick Magazine, West Germany.

Question 1

I have a lot of questions to ask you and so I'm hoping that you can give sometimes rather short answers, but if you feel like giving longer answers, that's all right to. You know?

Question 2

The Rajneesh people have been very hostile to the people of Oregon. They came in and took over the town of Antelope. Sheela has called anyone who opposed the commune a fascist and a bigot. How can you now tell us and make us believe that you did not know what Sheela was doing and saying? You did read the papers, you watch television, you listen to the radio. The outside media has been reporting on this for four years and now you say to us that you just found out about this over the last few days.

Question 3

That's all you knew?

Question 4

Are you saying doubt?

Question 5

We'll be coming to that in a moment, okay?

Question 6

Why were you in silence for so many years and why and what prompted you to break your silence?

Question 7

I know the God I pray to. Are you asking me whether I know who I pray to or were you just asking that...?

Question 8

Could I ask you how you did become aware? Who did approach you first so that when did you know that, you began to suspect that Sheela and her gang were up to no good. Was it in may, was it in June?

Question 9

I believe that was in June?

Question 10

October of eighty-four? Is when Bhagwan started speaking?

Question 11

In public I think it was in June '85.

Question 12

Well, are you saying that, that you've been suspicious of Sheela since last October -- that you've been watching her?

Question 13

Harry Truman who was president of the United States once said that, "The buck stops here," in other words, whoever is the head of an organization.... So why didn't you stop Sheela sooner? I still don't understand.

Question 14

I think the bomb was developed under Franklin Roosevelt... Did Sheela resign, was she asked to resign rather than be fired? And to whom was the letter addressed and can the letter be made available to the media?

Question 15

Whom did she inform?

Question 16

And whom might that be?

Question 17

So is there at the commune here, a letter signed by Sheela or is there not a letter signed by Sheela?

Question 18

Because if not, it is very possible that Sheela and her gang who are now in Zurich could and may have already emptied out your bank accounts in Zurich.

Question 19

Hm mm. Do we know how much was taken out?

Question 20

So you have no intention of doing this now?

Question 21

What are you going to do if you find out that Hasya suddenly is following in Sheela's footsteps?

Question 22

You have also said the other night at a press conference when you announced the Sheela trauma, that 'this is giving me great excitement and I enjoy it.' Is it possible that you have staged Sheela's departure for excitement?

Question 23

Are you serious? Because you're going to be quoted around the world.

Question 24

Well, when you're being serious could you have a straight face?! Most people on the outside are skeptical about what you're really saying -- after all these are mere allegations. There has been no proof other than the finding of electronic equipment and these books on how to kill, which in and of itself is not a crime. How do you respond to the skeptics on this particular question?

Question 25

Well, these houses were built by people in the commune, I mean they were not built by the outside?

Question 26

Have people come forward... Not necessarily to you?

Question 27

For what purpose do you think she bugged your house? What would she have hoped to have heard, if you were in silence?

Question 28

Was the doctor or the dentist or Vivek giving you any information?

Question 29

No, but where are the actual tapes of the bugging? I mean is that going to be turned over to the FBI?

Question 30

Well, she must have left with a trunk then?

Question 31

When was this? Saturday night?

Question 32

The fourteenth? That's Sheela and a group of....

Question 33

Left on a Rajneesh plane?

Question 34

If they resigned, they had no right to take that plane?

Question 35

Well, who flew them, and under what authority?

Question 36

And she has now left?

Question 37

She is still here?

Question 38

In what way did Sheela threaten Sheela's... The secretary?

Question 39

That who had killed people? Sheela?

Question 40

The private secretary to Sheela, you mean?

Question 41

But did you say before that Sheela did kill someone?

Question 42

It begins with an h, I think.

Question 43

If you wanna keep a secret, never tell your secretary, remember that.

Question 44

There is a report circulating in Europe tonight that you have written a letter to the Rajiv Gandhi asking if you can return to India. And if so, this letter is alleged to state also what can be done regarding the taxes you owe. Did you, or anyone here at the commune, on your behalf, write such a letter to Gandhi, and are you planning to India?

Question 45

The people in Germany are particularly irritated with you, regarding your Hitler quote in the August issue of Der Spiegel in which you said you love this man, and you compared him moralistically with Mahatma Gandhi. Could you please perhaps expand on this and put it in a more proper perspective?

Question 46

All right, just get serious for one second. People in Germany are really upset at why you keep saying, you loved Hitler. I mean Hitler was a jerk.

Question 47

I'm american. I hope you weren't referring to me.

Question 48

You've been quoted as saying you would fight our government with weapons. This is in regard to your immigration problems. Why are there so many weapons here at this commune?

Question 49

Oh. What's San Francisco got to do with it?

Question 50

But that's a very large force, and you have a lot of weapons here per person; it's even more than what we have in New York city.

Question 51

It took us about an hour just to get from Rajneesh to here, through one of the most treacherous roads. Now do you think anybody in their right mind, who wanted to come here to do bad for the commune, would be making their way.... You've got security posts -- I think I counted five coming in here.

Question 52

Well, it was that way when you bought the place. You got the place "as is."

Question 53

You have a rotten road to get in here, so who would wanta come in here and do harm to anybody?

Question 54

So therefore why do you need all these weapons?

Question 55

I mean, it doesn't make sense that people would wanta take their lives in their hands.

Question 56

But in four years that you've been here, no one has invaded this property or tried to -- thank goodness -- to get at you or any other people in the commune, nobody. Nobody has surrounded this place with weapons. We haven't seen the state police come in, we haven't seen irate citizens from the Dalles or Madras, or any other place come down here, you know, with guns. You gotta couple of people who call to harass you.

Question 57

But they haven't marched on Rajneesh.

Question 58

So you're gonna keep your force and you're gonna keep your weapons?

Question 59

In the media, we have referred to Sheela as that "pistol-packing mama," and I don't think that you would like that same thing...

Question 60

What kind of changes are you planning?

Question 61

Well, could you give a couple of specifics?

Question 62

Are you saying then that Hasya... that her term of office will only be for a certain specified period of time?

Question 63

And that then there will be another confidential secretary?

Question 64

And who determines that?

Question 65

Okay. Who selects Hasya?

Question 66

As part of the changes at Rajneeshpuram, would you like to see the place become a resort?

Question 67

What kind of a resort do you envision...?

Question 68

What kind of games?

Question 69

How do you feel about recruiting non-Rajneeshee businesses to come here and open upshop?

Question 70

Have you gotten any word exactly as to where Sheela might be right now? The last we heard she was in Zurich.

Question 71

It is reported that she would like to open a gambling casino. With your money?

Question 72

How much money did she take out of Zurich? I thought I understood you to... You cited a figure of some money she took out of the bank in Zurich.

Question 73

But that was your money, or the money of the commune?

Question 74

Of the commune. But you don't know how much of that money she stole in Zurich.

Question 75

She didn't get her hands on millions of dollars there?

Question 76

What made you ask the finance minister -- or whatever his or her title is -- about this debt?

Question 77

They don't even want AIDS homes in New York city.

Question 78

Is suicide a part of your religion, because you do teach suicide?

Question 79

Why did you let Sheela leave? I mean, did you try to stop her in any way?

Question 80

When you found out that Sheela had left here what exactly did you do?

Question 81

Did it surprise you?

Question 82

Did you call somebody on the phone and say, "What happened?"

Question 83

You mean you didn't get upset, you didn't ask anybody any questions?

Question 84

But if you were enlightened, shouldn't you have figured out that that's what she was going to do?

Question 85

Do you plan to talk to the FBI yourself and give a deposition about Sheela?

Question 86

Well, would she be giving it, or would you be giving it?

Question 87

Because that's usually not the way the FBI works.

I write on criminal matters, and I know that.

Question 88

There are some sannyasins who feel they have been betrayed, because of this business with Sheela. Do you expect people to leave the Ranch now?

Question 89

How are you handling the sannyasins who do feel betrayed?

Question 90

At the time that Sheela left, did you know she had committed these crimes?

Question 91

Or did you find this out after she left?

Question 92

Are there any more rumors, you know, things floating around that you wanta share with us?

Question 93

So what's new now?

Question 94

Why do you wear a turquoise robe? I mean, why are you not dressed in red? At the first festival here it was very hot, and you also wore the cap over your head. And I kept thinking, "the man's gotta be out of his mind to wear a hat!" (inaudible because so much laughter)

Question 95

But I saw you in the car, and the car you were driving then...

Question 96

It was a hundred and twenty-five out!

Question 97

Why do you wear this color robe?

Question 98

So why do you not wear a red colored robe?

Question 99

Uh, would you like to come over to Germany for a visit?

Question 100

What're you gonna do when you get your green card? Go to work?

Question 101

You will get married if necessary?

Question 102

Okay. Are you saying, and can I quote you as saying, that if they do not give you your green card you will marry.

Question 103

And if you lose?

Question 104

But would you marry if it was the only way you could get a green card?

Question 105

I said to you, "Would you marry if that was your ticket to a green card?"

Question 106

Why not?

Question 107

You just said that there were eighty thousand U.S. sannyasin females.

Question 108

Do you ever plan to get married?

Question 109

You would have to inquire of whom?

Question 110

Would you get married? Forget about your INS problems...

Question 111

You intend to remain a bachelor?

Question 112

Are you getting tired?

Question 113

Is there anything that you would like to say to our readers regarding this current situation and how to reassure them?

Question 114

And, Bhagwan, if you could talk to Sheela right now, what would you tell her? Because she will probably be reading this in our papers in Europe. Perhaps you would like to give Sheela and her gang a message.

Question 115

Do you want to see her in jail?

Question 116

Well don't you feel she should be prosecuted if there has been any crimes committed?

Question 117

What should he be called?

Question 118

Finally, do you object to being called the sex guru?

Question 119

What do you want to be called? What do you want the media in this country and abroad to refer to you as? We always refer to you as the sex guru or the guru who advocates free love... or the rich man's guru?

Question 120

But you have advocated free love?

Question 121

So then you don't object to being called the love guru, is that it?

Question 122

What would you like us to call you?

(source:CD-ROM)