The Last Testament (Vol 3) ~ 06

event type	interview
date & time	27 Sep 1985 pm
location	Sanai Grove, Rajneeshpuram
language	English
audio	Available, duration 1h 56min. Quality: good.
online audio	free download from OshoWorld
video	Available, duration 1h 57min. Quality: good.
online video
see also	timeline : Osho Timeline 1985 first edition : The Last Testament (Vol 3) (1994 on CD-ROM) other editions, translations and links
online text	find the PDF of this discourse
shorttitle	LAST306

notes

synopsis

Interview. Announcements by Sw Dhyan John : Jim (name inaudible), Chicago Sunday Times newspaper (question 1-4); Jim Gordon, the Atlantic Monthly Magazine, and the Washington Post (q.5-51).

CD-ROM on this chapter: Interviews with Chicago Sunday Times; and Jim Gordon, the Atlantic Monthly Magazine, and the Washington Post.

Question 1 : Jim (name inaudible), Chicago Sunday Times newspaper

Bhagwan, I wonder whether you have considered the events of the last few weeks in light of the biblical story of the serpent in the garden -- do you believe that a serpent came into your garden, and might it have the same results?

Question 2

My question meant to get at the temptation to power that Adam and Eve were presented with.

Question 3

So your position is that the temptations to power will not or have not corrupted and undermined your movement as they historically have damaged other movements?

Question 4

Could you tell us what moment was that? Describe the moment when you first became aware of Sheela's activities.

Question 5 : Jim Gordon, the Atlantic Monthly Magazine, and the Washington Post

I've been waiting many years to sit here.

Question 6

I first saw your picture about twelve years ago when Shyam Singh was wearing a mala around his neck. I've been knowing about you for all those years and doing meditations....

Question 7

... Reading books. And I've been in Poona... and you've touched me a great deal over the years in many ways.

Question 8

I'm here tonight as a journalist.

Question 9

That badness or that negativity has also been in my mind. It's not even bad -- there are doubts that I've had.

Question 10

When I was in Poona, there were young girls, who in a kind of group mind... There was like of a cheerleader saying to them, "go get sterilized." And that made me very sad. I'm not talking about thirty-five year old women, but young, young people -- sixteen, eighteen years old -- some of whom later decided, whom I saw, because I'm a doctor also, who wanted to have babies.

I felt like at times there was a group mind at work, even there, in Poona, and there was a pressure on people, and I wondered why you didn't stop it.

Question 11

But up to now richness has not brought equality.

Question 12

Don't you there's enough to go around in this country itself?

Question 13

So what do you suggest to do here, now?

Question 14

But we've been trying over the years, to stop the nuclear war, and I don't see that our efforts are doing much good.

Question 15

I'm suspicious, because scientists have created a technology that's totally gotten out of hand.

Question 16

How... What role do you see your movement -- you and your sannyasins -- playing in this kind of....?

Question 17

As I think about it, my mind goes in two directions. One is, it's beautiful and the other is, it sounds like a pipe dream.

Question 18

I'm writing a book on new religions and I've spent time with different groups, and a number of the people, who are leading groups, have the same idea and are trying to approach it in their own way. The maharishi is trying to approach it in his way. Even reverend moon has spent millions of dollars on bringing scientists together. What do you think the difference is between the way you're approaching it and the way they're approaching it?

Question 19

I understand what you're saying, but from the outside it looks similar.

Question 20

So how are you going to get across the internal change that's possible?

Question 21

... Is why you didn't act with Sheela. Why you let her become your secretary? -- somebody with very obvious limitations as well as strengths.

Question 22

Why not stop her before she goes beyond it?

Question 23

But she's half-berserk. Or more than half.

Question 24

But she provoked a lot of it to.

Question 25

Sometimes she did a bit more than what they were doing.

Question 26

But can't you see why they would be nervous, particularly about so many strange people coming in, and about people moving so fast, when they're coming here to be by themselves?

Question 27

On the level of Antelope, sannyasins were in a majority -- they had much more power, much more understanding of the world, much more ability to deal with things, and that was a time to show compassion... for those people... who are in the town.

Question 28

It's like a, if you're going into an area where there's a primitive tribe and where you're infringing on their customs...

Question 29

It was basically arrogant Christians who thought they had a right to the whole country.

Question 30

Not mine. I'm a Jew from Russia.

Question 31

They're not going to do that.

Question 32

You haven't seen them all. Some of them are not so bad looking.

Question 33

Why are you so snobbish?

Question 34

But they're just country people. I mean they're simple people.

Question 35

A while ago when we were talking, I could feel very much your interest and concern for people in Ethiopia, in India, who were starving because of lack of birth control -- why are you not concerned with the people in Antelope?

Question 36

It's the American West -- everybody here has guns.

Question 37

On the Ranch, what developed here was a surrender of people, to people above them in the hierarchy. Couldn't have done something...?

Question 38

In my meeting Sheela, certainly one could see her intelligence, at least in very practical matters, in her cleverness about things, but you could also see the very oppressive side, the very mean-spirited side as well. You must have seen that being in contact with her every day?

Question 39

But you didn't see what she was doing on the Ranch itself?

Question 40

Do you think it would have made sense to have other people coming to talk to you about what was happening?

Question 41

But why not?

Question 42

But if you're creating such a big experiment, don't you think it would have been helpful to have had at least one other person coming to talk to you?

Question 43

It feels to me like you may have used those people.

Question 44

Over the last year I thought to myself, when is he either going to get rid of Sheela or turn things around? And it felt like maybe you were just letting her go and do something.

Question 45

How did you know the point to do something?

Question 46

This is America.

Question 47

Nothing happened to Nixon....

Question 48

Same with Sheela.

Question 49

Why did you wait nine months or so?

Question 50

You play a very risky game.

Question 51

Over the years there have been a number of very powerful people who have been with you -- your sannyasins -- a number of whom have left, or have been kicked out, like Shyam. Why do you think, that happens?

(source:CD-ROM)

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