The Last Testament (Vol 4) ~ 12

event type	interview
date & time	22 Nov 1985 pm
location	Span Resort, Manali (HP)
language	English
audio	Available, duration 1h 12min. Quality: first 10 min barely audible, the rest good (under revision).
online audio	free download from OshoWorld
video	Not available
online video
see also	timeline : Osho Timeline 1985 first edition : The Last Testament (Vol 4) (1994 on CD-ROM) other editions, translations and links
online text	find the PDF of this discourse
shorttitle	LAST412

notes

CD-ROM on this chapter: This discourse will be in the book India: Coming Back Home, which has not been published, as of August 1992.

synopsis

Interview. No announcement heard : unidentified Indian interviewer, man.

CD-ROM on this chapter: Interview by freelance reporter, Venkatram.

Remastered audio intro: Interview with Venkatraman. Editor: it looks correct.

Question 1

Thank you very much (inaudible) I think (inaudible) Let's see (inaudible). And now that you are back home, what are your (inaudible)?

Question 2

Do you have sannyasins proposed to set up a model city at the foothills of the Himalayas?

Question 3

What kind of people you attract? Aren't they classy people? I mean, they are different from the average human being, don't you think? I mean, (inaudible) a lot of people, they are above average. I think they are very successful, professional, and... a lot of them, perhaps most of them are.

Question 4

Authentic communist commune?

Question 5

Is it the Indian government sent someone to you from the embassy, a consul in San Francisco, saying that you are going to come back or something? Somebody can just see you. What is the truth about that, please?

Question 6

You mean there was no move by Indian government? According to some reports circulating in India, they say that some of your disciples in India appealed to the government of India, and at the highest possible level, the word went to Washington and where they seemed to have opposed the American government and please leave him alone, let him come back or something like that. Is this true or not?

Question 7

What do you mean, all is there, did you say? Did you ask him where the hell were you?

Question 8

What's (inaudible)?

Question 9

(inaudible) what you are now saying is, you will not mind asking your sannyasins to recreate a modern city of the 20th century or what, 21st century, what are you looking similar to the one that remains in Oregon, in the Himalayas if the government of Himachal Pradesh invites you to do so?

Question 10

You are indignant about many things in India, just as so many other educated Indians are, but they don't have the guts to speak like you do, are not the necessary standing or whatever. But if you had the power to change things in this country, what are the six most important things you would do?

Question 11

They say eight percent of the GNP... They say eight percent of the gross national product goes into defense. Where did you get seventy five percent?

Question 12

Are you saying the Pope should be stopped from coming here?

Question 13

Are you saying that Mother Teresa should be kicked out?

Question 14

What did the Christian father say?

Question 15

(inaudible)

Question 16

This is what Rajiv Gandhi is trying to do?

Question 17

How do you do that in a country where sixty percent of the people are uneducated?

Question 18

What would you like to do? What would you advise to do now?

Question 19

But how do you do it?

Question 20

Don't you think it's a bad comparison, because as I said, the guys who came here were superior human beings in their own way? Whereas Rajiv Gandhi is stuck with the scum of, you know, the bottom, you know, the downtrodden. I don't know (inaudible). You can communicate with the well-educated, and, you know, they know what you are talking about and you know what they are talking about. Whereas here is a guy who is trying to communicate with a country where, you know, two thousands of ignorance, illiteracy, poverty, hunger. So, isn't it more difficult...

Question 21

By then you had already become notorious in the country.

Question 22

So did he leave or (inaudible)?

Question 23

And how do you say?

Did you say anything nasty about him or his gods?

He said that?

Spreading ignorance?

(inaudible) Bengal or anywhere?

No, no, that is going to be NRI investment (inaudible).

That's what Rajiv Gandhi (inaudible).

How are we going to do that? Are you going to take the lead in helping the people to become aware of their rights and make them what they manage?

Don't you think people are like sheep? Supposing your Red Brigade moves in and brings this consciousness about Hindu people and say, if an incompetent fellow becomes education minister and he doesn't know how to sign his name or whatever. And, supposing you ask, uh, your disciples all over the country to go and educate people and revolt against them. In other words, ask your people (to) bring about a social revolution in the country, and if you could that would play perhaps a more active and permanent role.

You consider making that one of your tasks while you are here in the Himalayas?

How do you mean nonviolent? Are we not nonviolent already?

Don't you think you're talking about an idealistic platonic kind of state in the 20th century world? Is it possible or is it advisable for one fifth of the human race to stay defenseless? You know, we have had experiences, we have participated in China, Pakistan, Afghanistan, I mean...

I take the point. It would become worse if you don't have an army, isn't it?

You worked that out?

You have said that since Buddha, India has not produced a single man comparable to him. Why do you think this has been so? You have talked about slavery and all that kind of thing. And would you consider yourself as a man comparable to Buddha?

You have said that the Indian civilization is ready to die any moment in one of your speeches in Oregon or discourses or whatever like that. Is this death inevitable? If you had the power to stop this death, what would you do?

You had complained that thirty years of extensive travel in India has destroyed your health. You went to America to regain your health, but America has not treated you well and you have come back home. Have you changed your views on India since your bad experience in America?

The Indian customs authorities is treated you with utmost respect. They let you and your disciples go without checking your baggage, etc.

Because there is some speculation that, uh, some higher authorities have instructed... the customs people not to bother you and your disciples, you know, like that.

Does your return to India the end of one phase and the beginning of another new life? At fifty four years you are still young. How do you propose to spend the rest of your life?

Does this attitude have something to do with you being a Hindu?

You are born a Hindu?

What is your goal in life, your ultimate ambition?

(inaudible) You're just biding your time, aren't you?

If you are attracted some best (inaudible) in different disciplines, because you offered to them (inaudible). The disciples appear so devoted to you. What is the secret of this tremendous loyalty? Why do you think these bright people came to you and mostly stay on with you?

You make them aware?

What is this religion that was founded in your name without your being aware of it by your previous Ma Sheela, I know? You disassociate yourself completely with it, and how could you do it without your authority, and how come you are not aware of that? Do you disassociate yourself completely with it and how could she do without your authority and how come you are not aware of that?

But what is the fundamental (inaudible) of these three and a half years of silence? Why did you do that? Something of the matter with your throat? Or you needed mental peace? Or needed...

Is it true that you have given up reading for the past five years?

What about questions that you intellectually input into your brain?

You don't need any more...

You don't feel deprived or anything?...

You never feel, "Oh my God, I don't know about this. Let me look up the Encyclopedia Britannica or what (inaudible)?"

But you read newspapers and magazines?

But you are very well informed about who is doing what, what is Rajiv Gandhi up to, what is Reagan and all.

How do you spend your time? You contemplate?

(inaudible). If you were to decide to set up another modern ashram all over, do you think the Indian government will resist it or make it difficult for you coming back (inaudible)?

Why do you think they will?

We are not asking questions and things...

Aren't you missing Oregon? I mean, uh, the Rolls Royces...

What are you going to do with that ashram? (inaudible) to dismantle it or are you going to transport it some other place... in Oregon?

You know, there are reports that the Pune ashram owes the government something like 1.5 crores of rupees in unpaid taxes. Has there been any talk of paying these taxes? Is this true? In fact, many people expected that you would be arrested the moment you landed in this country. Are your tax hassles over, or has there been any some kind of understanding with the government?

What is the question now?

If you were to die tomorrow, what would you like the world to remember you most for? What would you like your obituary to be?

(source: a transcript)

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