Talk:Agyat Ki Or (अज्ञात की ओर)

From The Sannyas Wiki
Jump to: navigation, search

Current Understanding

event audio,
OshoWorld
audio,
Osho.com
Shailendra's PDF Oshoganga OshoWorld e-book (*1) Book edition Dates & Places
Vigyan, Dharm Aur Kala ~ 02 #1 Vigyan, Dharm Aur Kala 2. धर्म है बिलकुल वैयक्तिक Vigyan, Dharm Aur Kala 2. धर्म है बिल्कुल वैयक्तिक Vigyan, Dharm Aur Kala 2. धर्म है बिलकुल वैयक्तिक 1967?, place unknown
Agyat Ki Or ~ 01 #2 1. न भोग, न त्याग, वरन रूपांतरण 1. न भोग, न त्याग--वरन रूपांतरण 1. न भोग, न त्याग-वरन रूपांतरण 28 Jun 1967 om**, Surat (*2)
Agyat Ki Or ~ 02 #3 2. धर्म की सही शिक्षा 2. धर्म की सही शिक्षा 2. धर्म की सहीं शिक्षा 29 Jun 1967 om**, Surat (*2)
Agyat Ki Or ~ 03 #4 3. चित्त को बदलने की कीमिया 3. चित्त को बदलने की कीमिया 3. चित को बदलने की कीमिया 4. नीति का पाखंड 29 Jun 1967 pm, Lions Club, Surat
Agyat Ki Or ~ 04 #5 4. विज्ञान और धर्म में कोई विरोध नहीं 4. विज्ञान और धर्म में कोई विरोध नहीं 4. विज्ञान और धर्म में कोई विरोध नहीं 30 Jun 1967 om**, Surat (*2)
Agyat Ki Or ~ 05 #7 5. मन का पात्र कभी भरता नहीं 5. मन का पात्र कभी भरता नहीं 5. मन का पात्र कभी भरता नहीं 7. बोध क्रांति 30 Jun 1967 pm, Rotary Club, Surat (*3)
Amrit Varsha ~ 06 #6 Amrit Varsha 6. अपने अज्ञान का अस्वीकार (*4)
missing first 6 words
Amrit Varsha 6. अपने अज्ञान का स्वीकार
missing first 6 words
Amrit Varsha 6. अपने अज्ञान का स्वीकार
missing first 6 words
3 Sep 1967 am, Poona (?) **
Shiksha Mein Kranti ~ 02 (*5) Shiksha Mein Kranti 2. "Audio Not Available"
text available in osho.com library 2. धर्म और विज्ञान
Shiksha Mein Kranti 2. धर्म और विज्ञान Shiksha Mein Kranti 2. धर्म ओर विज्ञान Agyat Ki Or, 1967 and 1969 ed., 1. धर्म और विज्ञान
Shiksha Mein Kranti (शिक्षा में क्रांति), 1980 and 2005 ed., ch.2
16 Jan 1967 am, Gujarat University, Ahmedabad (*5)
Shiksha Mein Kranti ~ 03 Shiksha Mein Kranti 3. "Audio Not Available"
text available in osho.com library 3. शिक्षा और धर्म
Shiksha Mein Kranti 3. शिक्षा और धर्म Shiksha Mein Kranti 3. शिक्षा ओर धर्म Agyat Ki Or, 1967 and 1969 ed., 2. धर्म और शिक्षा
Shiksha Mein Kranti (शिक्षा में क्रांति), 1980 and 2005 ed., ch.3
3 Mar 1967 om**, Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel University, Anand (GJ) (*6)

(*1) The e-book has only two chapters numbered 4 and 7.

(*2) Dates from Jagdish differs for these three events. Our analysis showed that all 5 events are related and are the one series as well as Osho.com, Shailendra and Oshoganga say. These events fits well with Antar Ki Khoj (अंतर की खोज) series given in those dates too:

28.06.1967 am - Antar Ki Khoj ~ 03
28.06.1967 om - Agyat Ki Or ~ 01
28.06.1967 pm - Antar Ki Khoj ~ 04
29.06.1967 am - Antar Ki Khoj ~ 05
29.06.1967 om - Agyat Ki Or ~ 02
29.06.1967 pm - Agyat Ki Or ~ 03
30.06.1967 am - Antar Ki Khoj ~ 06
30.06.1967 om - Agyat Ki Or ~ 04
30.06.1967 pm - Agyat Ki Or ~ 05

(*3) Source of exact time of day is Manuscripts ~ Reports Timeline Extraction.

(*4) Although Osho.com site gives the title as अपने अज्ञान का अस्वीकार, Apne Agyan Ka Asweekar, the title for their 2010 version of the audio file has it as Apne Agyan Ka Sweekar, - the same as in Shailendra's e-book. (Sweekar = "accept".) Whether "Asweekar" is a mistake or an intended correction remains to be seen. "Asweekar" is basically the negation / opposite of "Sweekar".

(*5) Available as manuscript Manuscripts ~ Vigyan Aur Dharma (विज्ञान और धर्म), which gives place "Gujarat University, Ahmedabad". Source of date is Manuscripts ~ Reports.

(*6) Source of date is CD-ROM, see Talk:Revolution in Education.

Deliberations

Neeten's Osho Source Book says Osho's first recorded discourse and preserved tape seems to be Agyat, recorded in Ahmedabad on Jul 10, 1963, running some 57 minutes. Neeten has also reproduced the translator's preface to Towards the Unknown.

1st event of this series has 57min, however, the date does not match. It can not be part of the Agyat Ki Or series, at least not of the five talks-version.--DhyanAntar 05:14, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Hindi pdfs of two chapters (OshoWorld e-book) of this book (the same ones translated as Towards the Unknown?) floating around the net say that discourses 4 and 7 were given in Surat in the evenings of June 29 & 30, 1967. If the book presents the discourses in chronological order, then 5 and 6 were given in Surat as well, leaving only 2 and 3 to be accounted for. -- 27 May 2014

And fwiw, more info from a new source, Hathi Trust, but how it fits with existing info is far from clear. They purport to describe the 1969 JJK edition but have it at 93 pages with the subtitle "Acharya Sri Rajneesh Ke Do Pravachan," ie two discourses of Acharya Sri Rajneesh. Since the audio sites are offering seven discourses averaging more than an hour and the e-book excerpts refer to discourse #4 and 7, it is hard to imagine this book being any more than a partial rendering, if that. More clues are needed to assimilate this.

And more clues have been found, in previously overlooked portions of Neeten's work, but not entirely clarificatory:

First, a bare-bones entry for a publication in 1967, with no bibliographical details, but okay, first pub date.
Second, an entry for the 1969 edition, with some details, Sep 1969, 94 pages. This aligns not too badly with the Hathi Trust data, but the mystery of the seven discourses vs the two in the subtitle continues.
Third, an entry for the first edition of Towards the Unknown, with lots of details, including that it was published one month before the 1969 Hindi edition. But, alas, it also says the two talks were from Aug 15, 1969, not only an unlikely instant translation and publication but out of line with previous discourse dates. Not really very credible, when you get down to it. Sigh! -- updated Sarlo (talk) 00:12, 30 August 2014 (PDT)
Hindi book first published in Nov 1967, so these dates (from 15 Aug 1969) are incorrect.--DhyanAntar 05:14, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

The e-book at OshoWorld has 2 chapters, with dates 29 and 30 xxx 1967. (The PDF cannot be copy-pasted because of the font.) --Sugit (talk) 12:06, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

They are June 29 & 30, 1967, Surat as Sarlo stated a little above.--DhyanAntar 05:14, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Dates, Places and Numbers

The preface of the 1969 translation Towards the Unknown says:

"This book in your hand (...) is the translation of original Hindi 'Agyat-ki-Aur' being the scholarly discourses by Acharya Rajneeshji (...)"

That suggest that it is a complete translation! Maybe Agyat Ki Or at first had only 2 chapters, and then in later editions acquired more material? Or the 7 chapters of Agyat Ki Or were condensed to 2 in Towards the Unknown? Just thinking out loud. --Sugit (talk) 13:52, 5 October 2018 (UTC)


Sw Jagdish Bharti has provided info on 5 talks:

talk date and location
Agyat Ki Or #1 18 Jan 1967 Matunga Mumbi [sic]
Agyat Ki Or #2 3 Mar 1967 Vallabh Vidhyabhavan Anand
Agyat Ki Or #3 29 Jun 1967 Lions Club Surat
Agyat Ki Or #4 3 Sep 1967 Pune
Agyat Ki Or #5 30 Jul 1967 Rotary Club Surat

To compare with 'the current wiki's data':

Agyat Ki Or ~ 01 10 Jul 1963 Ahmedabad
Agyat Ki Or ~ 04 29 Jun 1967 pm Surat
Agyat Ki Or ~ 07 30 Jun 1967 pm Surat
Agyat Ki Or ~ ? 15 Aug 1969 pm

4th event looks as talk #3. I suggest that 7th event has incorrect month, then this event seems talk #5.--DhyanAntar 06:40, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Reports Timeline Extraction, sheet D-8 mentions talk on 18 Jan 1967 in Matunga, Bombay. Relation with first talk from Jagdish is unclear.--DhyanAntar 05:17, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

First edition of Agyat Ki Or has 2 talks only. Next edition has 7 talks.

Audios from those days have 7 talks. OshoWorld has these 7 audios. Later on 2 out of 7 were moved to more appropriate titles:

Source for this info is Shailendra. He also stated that PDF in OW has two chapters only, which are Agyat Ki Or #4 of OW (#3 in present book) and Agyat Ki Or #7 of OW (#5 in present book).--DhyanAntar 04:58, 18 October 2018 (UTC)


The combination of all this recent info looks good. Re the "incorrect month" for #7-which-became-#5, it could be a toss-up except for the problem of finding an intermediary one or two discourses between it and #4-which-became-#3. That they are both in the same city, Surat, makes succeeding months looks better than the same month.

And with this, the "current wiki's" two dates in 1963 and 1969 have become outliers. Perhaps they are the two that got moved to other books, or either or both could be just wrong, especially the 1969 date, since its source applies it to two talks. -- doofus-9 18:50, 30 December 2018 (UTC)


All 7 events contain incorrect first published year 1969. Buw we don't know which and how many chapters first edition 1967 contains.--DhyanAntar 11:58, 21 February 2019 (UTC)


Some re-thinking inspired by input from Manuscripts ~ Reports Timeline Extraction#B Sheets (B-1 to B-13V), concerning the Surat talks of Agyat: The Reports B sheets have an ambiguous number of events in Surat at the end of June, but do not specify titles. So it's 3-6 talks 28-30 Jun divvied up among the titles mingling there.

Jagdish has supplied info on two titles, Agyat and Antar Ki Khoj (अंतर की खोज). In his version, there are five events in these three days, four for AKK and one for Agyat, the Lions Club event on 29th evg. He makes Agyat #7 (new #5) as being on 30 Jul in Surat at the Rotary Club.

And the Agyat e-book fragment has old #4 and 7 (new 3 and 5) on Jun 29 pm and Jun 30 pm, without naming specific venues. One of the problems of the old view of all this was thinking that #5 and 6 had to come in between 4 and 7, and must have been in Surat on Jun 30 am and om or something like that, but chapters of these older books compiled from here and there are not always in chronological order, no need to be so orderly.

So now we have the timeline compiled from the Manuscripts ~ Reports. What does it tell us that's new that might sort some of this out?

1. There's every reason to believe that the three non-specific talks Jun 28-30 are in addition to the three specific talks in the evenings of those three days, that it is referencing six talks, though not entirely unambiguously. That Jagdish has five already in this time frame makes a sixth not a significant stretch.
2. It specifies talks on 29th pm at Lions Club and 30th pm at Rotary Club.
3. It has no event on Jul 30, at a Rotary Club or anywhere. On Jul 28, he is in Jabalpur, on Aug 2 in Gwalior, with nothing in between.

Regarding this last, absence of an event is of course not proof of anything, but it is suggestive, as these sheets give the appearance of being somewhat thorough.

On the basis of all these fingers pointing at the Timeline, i would contend that the most likely scenario, that requires the least amount of stretching, bending, spinning and denial, is that Agyat old #4 and 7 are both as the e-book has it:

There is room for six talks in those three days in Surat.
Two sources point to events at the Rotary Club on the 30th of something. For Osho to come back to Surat for a single talk on Jul 30 a month after he was just there is a stretch.
A Jul 30 event is not confirmed by anyone, while multiple sources point to Jun 30.
If there's a typo mixing up Jul and Jun, it is more likely in English than in Devanagari; on that basis, Jagdish is more likely wrong than either the e-book and the manuscript, never mind both.
The previous objection to #4 and 7 being 24 hours apart, that #5 and 6 would have to squeeze in between, is at best a decent guess, far from a certainty.

These points taken all together make a fairly compelling case for #7 at the Rotary Club in Surat on Jun 30, so i will enter it in the Timeline. -- doofus-9 19:34, 25 June 2019 (UTC)



media status

OW has 7 mp3s, osho.com has 5. The 5 audios of osho.com, looking at duration, could correspond to OW's 2, 3, 4, 5 and 7.

It needs to be researched what audio is what text: first known to us print editions has 2 chapters. Oshoganga and Shailendra's PDF both have 5 chapters. Also compare with the 2 chapters of Towards the Unknown (it expects that it is translation of first edition with two chapters too). --Sugit (talk) 12:06, 14 January 2019 (UTC)


First printed edition with two chapters most likely translated into Towards the Unknown. It needs to check that. And See Talk:Towards the Unknown: there are some match with 5 ch. version, which can be helpful in order to find the comparison 2-ch. and 5-ch.--DhyanAntar 04:20, 30 January 2020 (UTC)


Two chapters from first edition later published as ch.2-3 of Shiksha Mein Kranti (शिक्षा में क्रांति). We do not know what events (of 7) of Agyat Ki Or corresponding to printed two chapters. So events Shiksha Mein Kranti ~ 02 and Shiksha Mein Kranti ~ 03 are temporary, they should remove the clarity will appear. It seems date of Shiksha Mein Kranti ~ 03 is date of Agyat Ki Or #2 (table of dates from Jagdish above).--DhyanAntar 05:20, 31 January 2020 (UTC)


Checked: Towards the Unknown is indeed translation of two chapters of Agyat (1967ed.), which appeared in Shiksha Mein Kranti (ch.2-3).

It needs to check how this series sort with Antar Ki Khoj - events on the same dates.--DhyanAntar 08:05, 19 May 2020 (UTC)


Observations of Dilip:

"The two chapter version of AKO is first published in 1967 as per Wiki book page. Text of the chapter #01 and #02 matches perfectly (VERBATIM) with SMK #02 and #03 respectively. The text in Shailendra's docx, OG and OC for them do not match with transcription of any of the 7 audios of OW AKO. However audios SMK #02 and #03 are not available with OW and OC both.

"These two chapters are not related with other 5 events (Shailendra's 5 ch. version). They are not part of 'Agyat Ki Or' series. Only some similarity is found in regards to the stories told with their explanations in AKO audio #01 and #03 - perhaps that's why the book published with only 2 chapters in 1967 as 1st edition might have been titled as AKO.

"It's not possible confirm that audio OW AKO #01 (Vigyan, Dharm Aur Kala ch.2 in Shailendra's PDF) is first event of Agyat Ki Or series. But it's surely a duplicated upload in Osho World site in line with their upload of VDAK audio #02. And the transcription of the same perfectly matches verbatim with the text of Shailendra's PDF, OG and OC as 'VDAK: 2. धर्म है बिलकुल वैयक्तिक'. So relating it with next event (OW audio AKO #2) is not necessary.

"And finally audio OW AKO #6 is not part of Agyat Ki Or series because we can not find linking discourse in the series to concluding statement in which Osho observes: "How he (the blacksmith) reached home, that I will talk to you in the night." But it's surely included as "Amrit Varsha 6. अपने अज्ञान का स्वीकार" in Shalendra's PDF, OG and OC.

{This story of the blacksmith is also found in two more discourses:
अजहूं चेत गंवार (संत पलटू दास) -प्रवचन-03 बड़ी से बड़ी खता—खुदी—(प्रवचन—तीसरा)
तमसो मा ज्योतिर्गमय-(प्रवचन-05) पांचवांप्रवचन--जीवन का सम्मान (In this discourse Osho adds to the story: a saint (fakir) explains and motivates the blacksmith that creator is bigger than his creation and he can break open the shackles.)
These references are not relevant with AKO.}"

21.05.2020


analysis of audio and text

Dilip Sodha has made an extensive comparison and analysis of the available audio and texts.

Conclusions
1. AKO audio #01, #03, #04, #05 and #07 of OW match with the PDF book sent by Sw Sugit and the text at OG under the same title.
2. AKO audio #02 matches with the text at OG and OC under VDAK #02. AKO audio #06 matches with the text at OG under AV #06.
3. The text in the on line Hindi library is not available at osho.com for both the books AKO and AV. However the chapter titles and brief text can be verified from shop.osho.com for these books.
4. Locations and dates of the discourses can not be ascertained from the audio talks.

Series: Agyat Ki Or (अज्ञात की ओर)

OshoWorld.com
Audio # / PDF ch.
Shailendra's PDF:
ch.title / pages
text at oshoganga.blogpost.com
ch.title
text at osho.com (*1)
ch.title
book: Agyat Ki Or (अज्ञात की ओर) (1967, photocopy) PDF Analysis of Audio and PDF Text Findings
audio #01 PDF Vigyan, Dharm Aur Kala (VDAK) to be checked. Corresponding ch. May be: 2. धर्म है बिलकुल वैयक्तिक'.
(PDF not available)
VDAK: 2. धर्म है बिलकुल वैयक्तिक
link: विज्ञान, धर्म और कला-(प्रवचन-02)
VDAK: 2. धर्म है बिलकुल वैयक्तिक
link
1. धर्म और विज्ञान {The ch. 1 (pg. 1 to 30) is titled 'Dharm Aur Vigyan'. It starts with the same story as in the OW audio AKO #01, put littlle differently. The talk here doesn't match fully with audio. It has mixed up the talk from other audios or books of unknown source. Or talk has been editted before publishing.} 00:00:00 Discourse starts (perhaps the initial address is not recorded): "I would like to start my today's talk with a small incident. In a small village, in one dark night, from one hut great sound started coming out, there is a fire ....." (.) At 00:51:29 Osho says: "To move into search 'who is within'; is religion. To open eyes towards 'what is within'; is religion. How that eye can open - regarding that, I will explain in tomorrow's talk. (.) ..... .......... (.) At 00:55:32 Osho concludes: "All organizations have killed the truth. Religion is absolutely individual - it has no relation to organization, to mass, to association. It is related with every individual's moving into his own conciousness. And how those eyes rise up towards that truth - I will talk to you about that tomorrow. (.) I am very much greatful that my these talks are listened with so much peace and love. God has made all to stand simply together in science - I pray that he can make all to stand together in religion too. My pranam to God within all - accept my pranam." (.) End of discourse. 1. AKO audio #01 matches with the text of VDAK #02. 2. Osho explains about the basic difference between science and religion, their relationship. 3. From the concluding quotes it can be seen that in the next lecture on the following day Osho would further deliberate on 'how to move towards the truth'. 4. OW audio numbers AKO #01 and VDAK #02 are same discourses uploaded under two different sreies AKO and VDAK by oshoworld.com! 5. 'VDAK: 2. धर्म है बिलकुल वैयक्तिक' does not find a place in all three: Shailendra's PDF, OG and OC under the title 'Agyat Ki Or (अज्ञात की ओर)'. 6. Hence it can be inferred that this event is not part of AKO.
audio #02 1. न भोग, न त्याग--वरन रूपांतरण
pages 2 to 17
1. न भोग, न त्याग--वरन रूपांतरण
link: अज्ञात की ओर-(प्रवचन-01)
1. न भोग, न त्याग, वरन रूपांतरण
link
nil 00:00:00 Discourse starts: "Dear atman! I am very much blissed that the talks of my own heart can be shared with you. Bliss increases as much as it gets distributed. (.) .......These two alternative forms of life are encountered by almost every human being. One way to enjoy lusts in life, to drown in them. One way is to run away from them, to turn the back towards them - and these two things are alway in front of us. I would state to you that both these things destroys the life. .… (.) By opening the eyes if someone becomes capable to see the life, then a very different dimension opens up. (.) .... 00:48:07 And closed eaes are the cause of all griefs in the life. (.) How can the eyes be opened? How the eyes can open to the truth of life? (.) First thing, always remember the first sutra: if you search into the life, based on to other's teaching; your eyes can never open. ......... (.) 01:20:25 God is very near. Only eyes are needed which can see. And from where will you bring these eyes which see? What we call sins, wake up towards those very sins and the seeing eyes will be born. And if the seeing eyes are born then the sins will disappear - and what remains is the God. (.) I am very much greatful that my these talks are listened with so much peace and love. And I am offering pranam to God within all - accept my pranam." (.) End of discourse. 1. This talk (AKO #02) appears to be the 1st event of AKO. 2. Apperently there is no relation with any of AKK's 4 discourses (given at Surat).
audio #03 2. धर्म की सही शिक्षा
pages
2. धर्म की सही शिक्षा
link: अज्ञात की ओर-(प्रवचन-02)
2. धर्म की सही शिक्षा
link
2. धर्म और शिक्षा {The ch. 2 (pg. 31 to 71) is titled 'Dharm Aur Shiksah'. It more or less matches with the talk as in the OW audio AKO #03. There seems to be quite a some of editting, alterations before publishing.} 00:00:00 Discourse starts (perhaps the initial address is not recorded): "Before I say something to you on 'धर्म और शिक्षा (dharm aur shiksha) - religion and education' I would like to start my talk with a small story. One sufi fakir (saint) slept one night, before sleeping he had one prayer in the mind, he had desire to have darshan of the God..... (.)" {The subjects covered are faith, trust, various so called religious teachings without any scientific approach, developing aptitude for conscience, courage, fearlessness, making the real religious teaching universal for freeing the man, etc. These are explained with the help of stories highlighting the deplorable situation created by the imposed blind belief systems world over. The story Osho's visit to the orpahanage is repeated in this talk.} 01:03:04 Before concluding Osho says: "One who moves with such adventure, with such courage, with such self confidence; one day he definitely attains to that which is worth attaining. I will talk something more about 'how we can attain that', in the evening. (.) I am very much greatful that my talks are listened with such peace and love. And I am offering pranam to God within all - accept my pranam." (.) End of discourse. 1. The subjects covered in this talk (AKO #03) are very much simialar with that of the two discourses AKK #03 and #04 - both combined. 2. Before concluding, Osho informs that he will explain 'how to attain to that which is really worth' in details in the evening talk. 3. Hence it can be inferred that AKO #03 is given in the morning or around noon. 4. It's more likely to be around noon of 29 Jun 1967 (at Surat) preceeding the next discourse on the same day evening - as we already have a AKK # 05 in the morning of same date at Surat - making three talks in this date!.
audio #04
PDF ch.4 : नीति का पाखंड (Surat 29 June 1967 Evening)
3. चित्त को बदलने की कीमिया
pages 30 to 40
3. चित्त को बदलने की कीमिया
link: अज्ञात की ओर-(प्रवचन-03)
3. चित्त को बदलने की कीमिया
link
nil 00:00:00 Discourse starts (perhaps the initial address is not recorded): "I am very much blissed that the talks of my own heart can be shared with you, this evening. Just it has been told that this time is full of darkness and this age is of downfall, it is of 'भौतिकवाद (bhautikvad) and materialism. (.) First of all let me state this thing is very much incorrect, this thing is false..... (.) 00:08:05 "This is not a mistake of any age - this is the result of a kind of mind the man has. And until we understand the alchemy, trick, process of changing the mind of a man - and until we do not cure to change the human conciousness; the darkness will remain on the earth. (.) 00:44:01 Hence this evening I would only say: suppressive (negative) policy is meaningless - not only meaningless but useless - not only useless but fatal..... Tomorrow morning I will talk on constitutive (positive) relegion. Tomorrow morning, I will discuss 'what is religion' - now I am saying whatever is the policy; it's not favorable. (.) ........ (.) 00:48:34 Our all non-violence and all love and all truth are borrowed and purchased from the market.... their roots have not grown from the religion's soul. That's why how can we catch the roots of religion, roots of life, how can we water those roots within us - that I won't be talking now, that I leave it for tomorrow morning..... (.) Accept my pranam." (.) Discourse ends. 1. It seems that this lecture (AKO #04) is the 3rd in the series given in the evening of the same day of the preceeding 'AKO #03'; as per the starting line by Osho. 2. There is a similarity in this talk with AKK #05 as in both these talks Osho has deliberated on the same subjects of Materialism, Darkness and Religion. 3. From the concluding talk it's seen that Osho would be deliberating more on 'what is religion' in continuation; in the morning of the next day.
audio #05 4. विज्ञान और धर्म में कोई विरोध नहीं
pages 41 to 54
4. विज्ञान और धर्म में कोई विरोध नहीं
link: अज्ञात की ओर-(प्रवचन-04)
4. विज्ञान और धर्म में कोई विरोध नहीं
link
nil 00:00:00 {The starting talk of about a minute not clearly audible - Osho says: "I have received many questions …. I wish to answer them all but it's not possible. Still I will try to explain such that, you can make out what could be the answers for those left out questions."} This is not included in the text which starts: "One friend has asked how the relevance can be established between science and religion. (.) The relevance may be established among those who have a strife. There is no strife between religion and science. (.) ....{Osho tells the same story of a negro wanting to enter the church but was denied entry by the priest.... in similar lines with AKK #01; to explain that the row is not of the God but it's created by the shops in the name of the God for thousands of years...trying to keep the man's eyes closed... because if the eyes open up then there could be no exploitation in the name of religion.} ...... (.) 01:00:28 Questions are still many but it will be difficult to reply to any more questions - I will tell a small thing and complete my talk. ........ (.)" 01:05:39 "In the end I say only this - till now we have tried keeping the religion and science separated, kept the body and soul separated; now it can't prolong - we have to try joining them together. (.) ....................... (.) I will come sometime again to you. Will discuss about many of your questions, those remained. By then there would be some new questions. For those questions which are left out I ask for forgiveness - whose questions are left out. (.) You have listened to my talks with such love - for that lots of thanks. (.) In the end I offer my pranam to God within all. Accept my pranam. (.) Discourse ends. 1. This discourse (AKO #05) is for the questions and answers - date and place not known for it. 2. The talk has some similarity with AKK. 2. While concluding this talk it can be seen that Osho seeks forgiveness for the questions which reamined unanswered and agrees to discuss them when he comes later. 3. This implies that talks organized at this place come to the end. 3. Hence the succeeding two lectures here, may not be sequential talks.
audio #06 Amrit Varsha 6. अपने अज्ञान का स्वीकार
pages 66 to 77
AMRIT VARSHA 6. अपने अज्ञान का स्वीकार
link: अमृत वर्षा-(प्रवचन-06)
Amrit Varsha 6. अपने अज्ञान का स्वीकार
link
nil 00:00:00 Some initial talk is not been recorded. Discourse bigins by Osho's voice saying: "…..from the very childhood it was heard that there is one town on the earth where all the people are religious. …… (.) I want to start my talk whith this story because the man has been crippled by the so called form of the religions on whole of the earth. ..... I tell only this, that the religion could not be born untill now. .... All beliefs are taught. But every one is born with thoughts. Thoughts take us to the God and beliefs to the priests. ..... If we see in these countries where influence of trust prevailed, the science could not be born and can not be born in future too. .... Following of others is the deepest of deep dependency - I myself abide to others - other becomes ideal for me. ....(.) In the end I would state: there are two bonds of man in a deeper sense - of faith and of following - the person who frees himself from these bonds is stepping towards truth...... (.) So in this my first discussion I have tried to break some things, to separate some things so that you become ready for those talks - I call them seeds.... (.) 00:54:45 One last story and I will complete my talk." {The story in short: - A famous blacksmith gets shackled along with other 99 big people of Rome and thrown into the forest by the enemies. The smith finds those shackles were made by himself and it was rather very difficult to get freed from them as there was no weaker link to break open.} While conculding Osho says: "The condition of that smith became such - as is experienced almost same by every person who wakes up and looks at his own shackles. But that smith reached back home in the evening. How he reached home, that I will talk to you in the night. (.) I am very grateful for listening to my talks with such love and peace. I offer my pranam to the God within all, in the end. Accept my pranam." (.) Discourse ends. 1. As per OW audio AKO #05 above, the series of the talks preceeded comes to end. 2. From this OW audio AKO #06 (अपने अज्ञान का स्वीकार - Apane Agyan Ka Sveekar - Accepatance of Own Ignorance" - it can be seen that it is a first discussion (talk) of perhaps a new series of talks (place and date of even to be confirmed) as Osho observs: "So in this my first discussion I have tried to break some things, ..." 3. In Amrit Varsha #05 (धर्म की यात्रा - Dharm Ki Yatra - Journey of Religion) Osho says: “Hence in the morning talk I want to state - again in the three upcoming discussions I can have detailed talk on that....." This indicates there should be 3 more talks (#06, #07 & #08) in continuation. 4. In this OW audio AKO #06 (published as Amrit Varsha #06) - Osho observes in the end "How he (the blacksmith) reached home, that I will talk to you in the night." This indicates that the next continuous talk would be in the night of the same date and at same place. 5. OW audio AKO #06 (अपने अज्ञान का स्वीकार) appears same as Amrit Varsha #06 in all three: Shailendra's PDF, OG and OC. But this audio is not found in OW Site: https://www.oshoworld.com/discourses/audio_hindi.asp?album_id=146
audio #07
PDF ch.7. बोध क्रांति (Surat 30 June 1967 Evening)
5. मन का पात्र कभी भरता नहीं
pages 55 to 67
5. मन का पात्र कभी भरता नहीं
link: अज्ञात की ओर-(प्रवचन-05)
5. मन का पात्र कभी भरता नहीं
link
nil 00:00:00 Discourse starts: "My dear atman! I would like to start my talk with a small story. A big crowd had gathered at the doors of a king's palace. ...(.) Man's mind is made such that - it never gets filled. And man's very chase to fill the mind is sansara (world). And to know this truth that mind gets never filled, is the begining of religion. ... In ten thousand years, if any experience has become unexceptionable for a man, it is that those who searched outside found nothing.... And the other thing is so much unexceptionably true that none of the person who has searched within is like the one, who might have said that 'I searched within and didn't find. (.) If something can be called scientific truth, something can be called 'वैज्ञानिक सत्य - Vaigyanik Satya', then this is it. Because there is no exception to it, no 'अपवाद - Apvad' is there. It's universal, it's 'सार्वलौकिक - Sarvalaukik'. It has been proved in the history of all human beings in the universe that - no meaning could be found outside. (.) 01:02:33 In this small talk (discussion) I have told you only one thing, only a small sutra (formula, rule) : look at the life with open eyes, observe, then the futility of the outside can be seen. And if the futility of the outside becomes visible, then the eyes arrive at the signification of the inner at once. .....(.) In the end I would pray: the God may bring out the fragrance and the truth and the music from your innerness. (.) I am very grateful for listening to my talks with such love and peace. I offer my pranam to the God within all, in the end. Accept my pranam." (.) Discourse ends. 1. This discourse doesn't seem to have a continuity with the preceeding OW audio AKO #06. 2. OG has titled these talks as 'अज्ञात की ओर-(विविध)'; विविध means various. So the book is a collection of various - different talks.
notes
(*1) No content-edits found in this audio.



overview of AKO, AV, VDAK and SMK

An overview of the relations between the series

Conclusions
1. AKO audio #01 and VDAK audio #02 are same discourse uploaded by OW under different title. Text in Shailendra's PDF, OG and OC matches with the audio perfectly. It does not match with any of the two chapters of AKO (1967.photocopy).pdf.
2. AKO audio #03 - text in Shailendra's PDF, OG and OC matches with the audio perfectly. It does not match with any of the two chapters of AKO (1967.photocopy).pdf.
3. The two chapters #01 and #02 of AKO (1967.photocopy).pdf matches perfectly with SMK #02 and #03 respectively. The text for them (SMK #02 and #03) in Shailendra's docx, OG and OC, do not match with transcriptions of any of the 7 audios of OW AKO - hence not related to AKO.
4. shop.osho.com/hi/ offers 6 discourses for AV and 5 discourses for AKO as shown in column "osho.com".
SW Book Page OW Audio # Shailendra's PDF Text at oshoganga.blogpost.com osho.com audio book Agyat Ki Or (अज्ञात की ओर) (1967) Notes
Agyat Ki Or (अज्ञात की ओर) (AKO) AKO #01 VDAK: 2. धर्म है बिलकुल वैयक्तिक VDAK: 2. धर्म है बिलकुल वैयक्तिक VDAK: 2. धर्म है बिलकुल वैयक्तिक nil OW audio numbers AKO #01 to #07 are verified w.r.t. the related matching chapter numbers as shown under col. C and D. The text of the all 7 chapters shown under col. E is not available in the online library of OC except 'VDAK: 2. धर्म है बिलकुल वैयक्तिक' which is very much there in OC.
AKO #02 1. न भोग, न त्याग--वरन रूपांतरण 1. न भोग, न त्याग--वरन रूपांतरण 1. न भोग, न त्याग--वरन रूपांतरण
AKO #03 2. धर्म की सही शिक्षा 2. धर्म की सही शिक्षा 2. धर्म की सही शिक्षा
AKO #04 3. चित्त को बदलने की कीमिया 3. चित्त को बदलने की कीमिया 3. चित्त को बदलने की कीमिया
AKO #05 4. विज्ञान और धर्म में कोई विरोध नहीं 4. विज्ञान और धर्म में कोई विरोध नहीं 4. विज्ञान और धर्म में कोई विरोध नहीं
AKO #06 AV: 6. अपने अज्ञान का स्वीकार AV: 6. अपने अज्ञान का स्वीकार AV: 6. अपने अज्ञान का स्वीकार
AKO #07 5. मन का पात्र कभी भरता नहीं 5. मन का पात्र कभी भरता नहीं 5. मन का पात्र कभी भरता नहीं
Amrit Varsha (अमृत वर्षा) (AV) AV #01 1. सत्य का दर्शन 1. सत्य का दर्शन 1. सत्य का दर्शन (OC #01) nil OW audio numbers AV #01 to #05 and AKO #06 are verified w.r.t. the related matching chapter numbers as shown under col. C and D. OC calls AKO audio #06 as AV audio #06 in their announcement in the discourse '(s038) Amrit Varsha #06.mp3'. Hence we can say that AKO audio #06 should find a place in book page of AV and not of AKO in Wiki. {The text of the all 6 chapters shown under col. E is not available in the online library of OC.}
AV #02 2. शून्य का संगीत 2. शून्य का संगीत 2. शून्य का संगीत (OC #02)
AV #03 5. धर्म की यात्रा 5. धर्म की यात्रा 3. सत्य की भूमि (OC #03)
AV #04 3. सत्य की भूमि 3. सत्य की भूमि 4. जागरण का आनंद (OC #04)
AV #05 4. जागरण का आनंद 4. जागरण का आनंद 5. धर्म की यात्रा (OC #05)
AKO #06 6. अपने अज्ञान का स्वीकार 6. अपने अज्ञान का स्वीकार 6. अपने अज्ञान का स्वीकार (OC #06)
Vigyan, Dharm Aur Kala (विज्ञान, धर्म और कला) (VDAK) VDAK #01 1. विज्ञान, धर्म और कला 1. विज्ञान, धर्म और कला 1. विज्ञान, धर्म और कला nil The related audio to be verified w.r.t. the text in Shailendra's PDF, OG and OC.
VDAK #02 2. धर्म है बिलकुल वैयक्तिक 2. धर्म है बिलकुल वैयक्तिक 2. धर्म है बिलकुल वैयक्तिक The audio VDAK #02 and AKO #01 match perfectly w.r.t. the text in the chapters under col. C, D and E.
VDAK #03 3. सेवा स्वार्थ के ऊपर 3. सेवा स्वार्थ के ऊपर 3. सेवा स्वार्थ के ऊपर The related audios to be verified w.r.t. the text in Shailendra's PDF, OG and OC.
VDAK #04 4. निर्विचार होने की कला 4. निर्विचार होने की कला 4. निर्विचार होने की कला
VDAK #05 5. प्रेम और अपरिग्रह 5. प्रेम और अपरिग्रह 5. प्रेम और अपरिग्रह
VDAK #06 6. मृत्यु का बोध 6. मृत्यु का बोध Jeevan Ki Khoj (जीवन की खोज): OC #03 (मृत्यु का बोध). Link.
VDAK #07 7. धर्म और विज्ञान का समन्वय 7. धर्म और विज्ञान का समन्वय 6. धर्म और विज्ञान का समन्वय
VDAK #08 8. विधायक विज्ञान 8. विधायक विज्ञान 7. विधायक विज्ञान
VDAK #09 9. विज्ञान स्मृति है और धर्म ज्ञान 9. विज्ञान स्मृति है और धर्म ज्ञान 8. विज्ञान स्मृति है और धर्म ज्ञान
VDAK #10 10. धर्म को वैज्ञानिकता देनी जरूरी है 10. धर्म को वैज्ञानिकता देनी जरूरी है 9. धर्म को वैज्ञानिकता देनी जरूरी है
VDAK #11 11. नया मनुष्य 11. नया मनुष्य 10. नया मनुष्य
Shiksha Mein Kranti (शिक्षा में क्रांति) (SMK) SMK #02 not available 2. धर्म ओर विज्ञान 2. धर्म ओर विज्ञान 2. धर्म ओर विज्ञान 1. धर्म ओर विज्ञान Related SMK audio #02 not available in OW and OC.
SMK #03 not available 3. शिक्षा ओर धर्म 3. शिक्षा ओर धर्म 3. शिक्षा ओर धर्म 2. धर्म ओर शिक्षा Related SMK audio #03 not available in OW and OC.