Talk:Anant Ki Pukar (अनंत की पुकार)
|book edition 2000||book edition 2009||PDF Shailendra's||Osho.com library||e-book OshoWorld Anant Ki Pukar||Oshoganga (*1)||Dates & Places|
|Anant Ki Pukar ~ 01||#1||1. ध्यान-केंद्र की भूमिका||1. ध्यान-केंद्र की भूमिका||1. ध्यान-केंद्र की भूमिका||1. ध्यान-केंद्र की भूमिका||1. ध्यान-केंद्र की भूमिका||1. (no title)||1. ध्यान-केंद्र की भूमिका||23 Dec 1967 pm, Lonavala|
|Anant Ki Pukar ~ 02||#5||2. एक एक कदम (*2)||5. अवधिगत संन्यास||2. अवधिगत संन्यास||5. अवधिगत संन्यास||2. अवधिगत संन्यास||5. (no title)||5. अवधिगत संन्यास||24 Dec 1967 am, Lonavala|
|Anant Ki Pukar ~ 03||#2||3. कार्यकर्ता की विशेष तैयारी (*2)||2. एक एक कदम||3. एक एक कदम||2. एक एक कदम||3. एक एक कदम||2. (no title)||2. एक एक कदम||24 Dec 1967 om**, Lonavala|
|Anant Ki Pukar ~ 04||#3||4. ‘मैं’ की छाया है दुख (*2)||3. कार्यकर्ता की विशेष तैयारी||4. कार्यकर्ता की विशेष तैयारी||3. कार्यकर्ता की विशेष तैयारी||4. कार्यकर्ता की विशेष तैयारी||3. (no title)||3. कार्यकर्ता की विशेष तैयारी||24 Dec 1967 pm, Lonavala|
|Anant Ki Pukar ~ 05||#4||5. अवधिगत संन्यास (*2)||4. ‘मैं’ की छाया है दुख||5. ‘मैं’ की छाया है दुख||4. 'मैं' की छाया है दुख||5. 'मैं' की छाया है दुख||4. (no title)||4. "मैं' की छाया है दुख||25 Dec 1967 am, Lonavala|
|Anant Ki Pukar ~ 06||#6||6. संगठन और धर्म||6. संगठन और धर्म||6. संगठन और धर्म||6. संगठन और धर्म||6. संगठन और धर्म||6. (no title)||6. संगठन और धर्म||31 Oct 1968 am, Nargol, meditation camp|
|Anant Ki Pukar ~ 07||#7
|7. ध्यान-केंद्र के बहुआयाम
|7. ध्यान-केंद्र के बहुआयाम (*3)||7. ध्यान-केंद्र के बहुआयाम (*3)||7. ध्यान-केंद्र के बहुआयाम
|7. ध्यान-केंद्र के बहुआयाम
|7. (no title)
|7. ध्यान-केंद्र के बहुआयाम
beginning incomplete, available first part only
|1972 -- 1974 ?, Kasubhai's House, Bombay (*4)|
|Anant Ki Pukar ~ 08 (*5)||#8 (*5)||8. रस और आनंद से जीने की कला||8. रस और आनंद से जीने की कला||8. रस और आनंद से जीने की कला||8. रस और आनंद से जीने की कला (*5)||8. रस और आनंद से जीने की कला (*5)||8. (no title)
beginning and end incomplete
|8. रस और आनंद से जीने की कला (*5)||23 Jan 1968 am, Bombay|
|Anant Ki Pukar ~ 09||#9||9. धर्म की एक सामूहिक दृष्टि||9. धर्म की एक सामूहिक दृष्टि||9. धर्म की एक सामूहिक दृष्टि||9. धर्म की एक सामूहिक दृष्टि||9. धर्म की एक सामूहिक दृष्टि||9. (no title)||9. धर्म की एक सामूहिक दृष्टि||9 Apr 1968 om**, Eastern Chambers, Bombay|
|Anant Ki Pukar ~ 10||#10||10. कार्यकर्ता का व्यक्तित्व||10. कार्यकर्ता का व्यक्तित्व||10. कार्यकर्ता का व्यक्तित्व||10. कार्यकर्ता का व्यक्तित्व||10. कार्यकर्ता का व्यक्तित्व||10. (no title)||10. कार्यकर्ता का व्यक्तित्व||18 Oct 1967 om**, Matheran, meditation camp|
|Anant Ki Pukar ~ 11||#11||11. ध्यान-केंद्र: मनुष्य का मंगल||11. ध्यान-केंद्र: मनुष्य का मंगल||11. ध्यान-केंद्र: मनुष्य का मंगल||11. ध्यान-केंद्रः मनुष्य का मंगल||11. ध्यान-केंद्र: मनुष्य का मंगल||11. (no title)
missing first sentence
|11. ध्यान-केंद्र: मनुष्य का मंगल||25 Feb 1970 am, Bombay|
|Anant Ki Pukar ~ 12||#12||12. काम के नये आयाम||12. काम के नये आयाम||12. काम के नये आयाम||12. काम के नये आयाम||12. काम के नये आयाम||12. (no title)
missing first 5 paragraphs
|12. काम के नये आयाम||16 Oct 1971 pm, Bombay|
|Anant Ki Pukar ~ 13||13. संगठन: अनूठा और क्रांतिकारी
"Audio not available"
|13. संगठन: अनूठा और क्रांतिकारी||13. संगठनः अनूठा और क्रांतिकारी||13. संगठनः अनूठा और क्रांतिकारी||1967 -- 1971 ?|
|Work Is Love Made Visible ~ 14 (*6)||14. तरल संगठन||unknown|
- Osho.com and 2009ed. has historical order for first 6 chapters, just like the English translation Work Is Love Made Visible, while other sources incl. 2000ed. switched ch.2 and 5.
- (*1) Oshoganga gives "Ahmedabad" in book title for each chapter. It looks as incorrect.
- (*2) Chapter titles of audios do not match to their contents: after re-ordering/re-numbering the discourses, the titles have stuck to the numbers so now are applied to different content. (E.g. compare the titles with column "Osho.com library".)
- (*3) We did not check these chapters on completeness as we do not have text of these editions.
- (*4) Dates are a guess, source is Laherubhai's book Blessed Moments with Osho, ch 26, where he talks about a workers' meeting re plans to buy a particular house in Thane. Laheru reports that Osho attended and discussed the price and usefulness of the place and explicitly says this is ch 7 of Anant. Woodland is mentioned as already inadequate. (The purchase fell through because no financing could be arranged so they kept looking and eventually bought in Pune.)
- (*5) The text is very incomplete, has lots of missing untranscribed parts, compared with the audio. Part of talk is interview with Times, it is in English, and in Shailendra's PDF that part is in Hindi. It seems reporter asks questions and wtires answers, Osho dictates for him.
- (*6) This event was given in English and the chapters presented here are Hindi translations.
The material on this page from 2016 and earlier is from the earlier days of groping in the dark. A fair bit of it still has relevance though, so it has been left alone, with a new section at the bottom for an Update which straightens out much of the missing and conflicting information.
All sources agree that the discourse from Lonavala featured at A Gathering of Friends, given in Dec 1967, is Chapter 1 of Anant. Other talks from that two-day event are likely included too, none of it previously published elsewhere. A partial e-book version has some additional dates, presented below after the audiobook TOC.
Additionally, there is material given in semi-private meetings at various other camps, recorded but not necessarily included in the books that arose from those camps. Neeten's Osho Source Book has a few entries for Anant, not all consistent, some of it suspect, but some pointing to these meetings for insiders doing the work. Two specific camps so cited are those of Prabhu Ki Pagdandiyan (प्रभु की पगडंडियां) at Nargol and Sambhavnaon Ki Aahat (सम्भावनाओं की आहट) at Matheran (update: Matheran camp related with current series is Asambhav Kranti (असंभव क्रांति)--DhyanAntar 13:09, 26 June 2020 (UTC)). An example:
- As for the structure of future camps aimed specifically at those people working together with him, Osho gave his considerations in a meeting, where he guided his friends and explained their work and responsibilities:
- "Today's gathering has been called because I have been thinking that from next time, the camps should be for four days instead of three. The first day should be for all the friends. One day should be spent with them, and the camp will start the next day. Then I can do something for them, and they can think and reflect in this direction. And in whichever village we are meeting, we are gathering together, there should be a one-hour sitting for the friends of that village who have become actively interested in doing the work. There should be a get-together for them in which we can think together how we can expand the work there. Whoever has any proposals should bring them and explain to the others how the work can move forward according to their ideas." Work is Love Made Visible (2011) #10
- During the meeting Osho also mentioned that Shri Narendra was doing his research on meditation and preparing his Ph.D. thesis on the subject after having finished his M.A. in psychology. He urged his seekers to inform Narendra about the changes happening to them as a result of their meditations, so he could complete his research. He also told the young people to create a youth force in their respective home towns. The discourses of this second camp of Nargol were published in Hindi in Prabhu ki Pagdandiyan (The Walkways of the Lord).
Neeten has sprinkled his OSB liberally with quotes from Work Is Love Made Visible. A couple, already juxtaposed nicely in his Jabalpur section, illustrate the subtlety and attention to the circumstances of the individual woven into the work:
- One friend translated my words into English. His translation could not have been right. Other people also told me that his translation was not right. I said, "But none of the people whose translations can be right ever say to me that they will translate something! This man says he can, so let him do it. When someone who translates correctly comes and says he wants to translate, I will let him translate. Right now, I let whoever comes do it. Just look at this poor man's courage! He doesn't know much English and yet he is translating." Work is Love Made Visible (2011) #6
- "Recently one friend translated something, but I didn't like it. He had translated The Perfect Way, but it was not a good translation. One thing was that he translated it in an Eastern way – just like Eastern scholars would, just as one would translate ancient scriptures like the Puranas. He translated it into archaic English. It did not feel good. And then he also made some fundamental mistakes. In many places the meaning became completely the opposite of what I had said. So that translation had to be stopped, it was not allowed to be sold. But the book had already reached some places." Work is Love Made Visible (2011) #8 -- doofus-9 (talk) 09:34, 3 October 2014 (PDT)
"TOC" below is from an audiobook version. Two such audiobooks were found, with all the same chapter titles but in a slightly different order:
- 1. ध्यान-केंद्र की भूमिका
- 2. अवधिगत संन्यास
- 3. एक एक कदम
- 4. कार्यकर्ता की विशेष तैयारी
- 5. ‘मैं’ की छाया है दुख
- 6. संगठन और धर्म
- 7. ध्यान-केंद्र के बहुआयाम
- 8. रस और आनंद से जीने की कला
- 9. धर्म की एक सामूहिक दृष्टि
- 10. कार्यकर्ता का व्यक्तित्व
- 11. ध्यान-केंद्र: मनुष्य का मंगल
- 12. काम के नये आयाम
- 13. संगठन: अनूठा और क्रांतिकारी
As there are thirteen discourses in both sources and Work Is Love Made Visible has fourteen chapters with one original English chapter to go with those from Anant, thirteen shall be taken as the gold standard for this book.
Here are the data from the partial e-book mentioned above. There are errors and sifting it is complicated but there is some likely useful material in the end.
There are actually two e-books, one straightforwardly called Anant Ki Pukar, the other Talking to Workers. That's right: in the Hindi Sahitya section of Osho World's e-books, there is a Hindi e-book with this name. On the page it reads टॉकिंग तू वर्कर्स, ie Tocking Tu Varkars transliterated into Devanagari. It is only a 40-pager, compared with the 114 for Anant. The Anant e-book has basically just text, with no date or location info or even chapter titles, just chapters numbered apparently from one to twelve, so one may be missing there, or ... The last ostensible chapter is a fair bit longer than the rest, and with much longer paragraphs in general, denser. It has enough material to be two chapters compressed into one, so the material may all be there, just not delineated.
Anant also has a slightly more spacious layout, so that the chapters that match those of Workers are about 10% "longer" in its version. The Workers e-book has more info but about fewer chapters. For convenience, Devanagari has been transliterated. Here we go, with notes following:
- 1. Workers Camp, Lonavala 23 Dec 1969 -- p 1-9/40 text matches Anant # 1 (p 1-11/114)
- 3. Workers Camp, Lonavala 24 Dec 1967 -- p 10-18 matches Anant # 3 (p 15-26)
- Workers Camp 9-4-68 no loc or # -- p 18-25 matches Anant # 9 (p 72-80)
- Workers Camp 22-1-68 no loc or # -- p 25-27, no match found (update Jun 2020: this is last part of Jeevan Kranti Ki Disha ~ 03, talk on evening before Anant # 8)
- Jeevan Kranti Ke Sutra
- Workers Camp
- 16 Oct 1971 no loc or # -- p 27-40 matches Anant # 12 (p 99-114) (text incomplete: missing first 5 paragraphs)
Aside from a typo in the year -- more about that below -- the first discourse matches up well with known data. #3 fits in very well and extends what is known about the Dec '67 Lonavala camp. There may be no more from that camp (aside from #2) or there may be a few more, not likely more than five total.
- - Karyakarta se Batein. 09.04.1968. Lonavala.
- - Haar: Ek Anuthi Bhaasha. 10.04.1968am.
These titles in his Appendix are often not series/book titles but discourse/chapter titles. A look above at the audiobook TOC does not create a great AHA! moment but okay. The second title has no resemblance at all to any of the TOC titles but the first word of his first title shows up in two titles of the TOC, and means "worker," so we may be onto something with that. At least a hmmm moment. And throw in Lonavala, just a few hours drive from Mumbai in those days, and we have some serious resonance.
The next discourse, at p 25-27 with no match ... maybe it's the one missing from the Anant e-book? Or a piece of who knows? It is followed by a line of space and then the lines as indicated above and then another space. The format in the rest of this e-book has been to have all the material about the chapter precede the chapter, with these spaces fore and aft. But here???? It looks like "Osho ... Jeevan Kranti Ke Sutra" may belong to the preceding unmatched two pages , and "Workers Camp ... 16 Oct 1971" with the #12 discourse which follows.
Jeevan Kranti is a series with a known, published core of four discourses but it has ten audios, with the other six basically unknown, so it may be that these two pages are from one of those. There seem to be other discourses on the day cited but a short talk with workers could fit in anywhere. -- updated doofus-9 (talk) 22:42, 2 January 2015 (PST)
- Or, it turns out, there are two different series called JKKS, a 4-talk one and a 10-talk one. So take yer pick. -- doofus-9 01:50, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
Above it was mentioned there was more about the "wrong year" typo regarding the first discourse. This is it. Some more tentative data which likely pertain to Anant have been found in Neeten's Appendix section:
- – Bhaivishya Ki Yojna. 23.12.1969am. Lonavala.
- – Nav Sannyas Kya. 23.12.1969pm. Lonavala.
Not only are these dates the same as the "wrong year" date above, supposedly the date of Anant # 1, which was supposedly 1967, but their themes are remarkably "talking to workers". "Nav Sannyas Kya" (What is neo-sannyas?) is the title of one of Osho's Mumbai-era books, and the Lonavala talk here is but one of the "early" talks Neeten mentions that MAY be in this book, some from as early as 1965, all pointing to a "new" sannyas, long before he actually "officially" gave sannyas to anyone.
- This books is not related with above date as dates of talks in the book are 1970-1971.--DhyanAntar 13:09, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
- This is wrong. According last researches 2n event is presented in Nav-Sannyas Kya? but only its beginning in ch.7 of 1972ed. and in ch.5 of 2006ed.--DhyanAntar 14:04, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
So, okay, and ...? Well, there is another talk on this same day in Lonavala, whose title translates roughly as "Plans for the Future". You can't get much more "talking to workers" than that.
- Diversionary, non-clarifying update: Hindi series of talks with dates (source document) mentions a one-talk "series", "Bhavishya Ki Yojana", on 23.12.67. This adds more info to the soup, increasing the variety of possibilities without settling anything. There is clearly resonance with the first of Neeten's entries above, but the wrong year aspect is just messy.
- The possibility discussed below that there really were talks exactly two years later could never have been very likely, as three-day events would be usually on weekends, and that doesn't work exactly two years later. Could Neeten's year be wrong and his "am" right? Well, sure, but then we have the problem of what ever happened to this Bhavishya talk? It does not seem to be included in Anant, but why not, because it should fit right in? "Bhavishya Ki Yojana" = "Plans for the future".
- We have seen alt-titles cropping up on other occasions in this source doc. Perhaps this is an alt-title for Anant #1. This seems likeliest on mature reflection. -0- doofus-9 21:23, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
- It is so as Osho was going to arrive in Lonavala for two-camp series (24th and 25th) in the evening of 23 Dec 1967 according to Letter written on 16 Dec 1967. So, only possible event on Lonavala is Anant #1. And Osho said in there: "So we have gathered here to discuss how the color of peace can be spread far and wide in this vast ocean of life.", which reflects the message of "Bhavishya Ki Yojana" title.--DhyanAntar 13:09, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
So it appears that these two talks may be two more for Anant. Moreover, they do NOT validate the "wrong year" given above for Anant # 1. Au contraire, they suggest, strongly, that this date, two years to the day after Anant # 1, may be the larger gathering that was hinted at in Anant # 1 as something to come further down the road. Toward the end of his talk, Osho says:
- I have said some things to you about these few points. Now you give it some thought to the details; what can be done; how can it be done? Give some thought to it with a very open mind and then we will discuss it here. All your opinions are invited tomorrow morning; express them, consider them, and then come to a decision.
- The camp that I am doing here is a small camp. But then the idea will be to arrange a camp for all my friends from all over the country who have become interested in this work. This one is experimental, because fewer people will be able to come to a conclusion more easily. It may perhaps not be as easy with larger numbers of people.
- So we should reflect and then we should again have a camp in which people from all over the country can gather. It is also necessary for them all to meet each other, it is necessary that they become acquainted with each other. They are doing the work in their areas. Your cooperation and encouragement are necessary for their work. They shouldn’t feel alone there. They should feel that there are also more friends all over the country, that they are not standing all alone somewhere, that they have fellow travelers, and that if there was ever a need they would all be with them, to give advice, or if there was work to be done, they would come and help.
And while we're here, we can surmise that Osho's words suggest that this first camp at Lonavala, two days, was likely structured for no more than three talks, this one the first day / evening, then lots of time for discussion and sharing, then the two more only the next day. Room for more than three talks looks unlikely.
This is it. -- doofus-9 16:53, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
- Except to add that, according to Dates and Places info received later -- text and image below -- there were five talks at Lonavala that year, spilling over into the third day. -- doofus-9 01:50, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
A strong candidate has been found for another of Anant's talks, which is a talk Gyan Bhed says was given Jan 18 1971 in Shanmukhanand Hall in Mumbai. He does not explicitly connect it with Anant but says it concerned Osho's vision of "meditation temples" and the complete range of spiritual services they should offer. Neeten cites it but also doesn't connect it with Anant; otoh he goes a step further in juxtaposing a paragraph from Gyan Bhed and several very similarly-themed paragraphs from Work Is Love, chap 11. It would not be much of a stretch at all to connect all these dots, though some details might be wrong. -- doofus-9 18:50, 25 May 2016 (UTC)
The 13-chapter audio-based TOC above aligns fairly decently with this 12-chapter version from the 2000 hard copy edition of Anant (image right, click for larger). And the differences can now be understood:
As mentioned above with the audio TOC, there were two versions of audiobook, which had the same 13 titles but in a slightly different order. The 13th title is the one that is missing in the 2000 edition, while the other 12 are identical, with the order of the one not shown being the same as in the image, the differences from the one above being ch 2-5. And the reason for the 12-13 discrepancy is that the 13th was omitted from the 2000 but included in the 2009 edition (and in a commercial e-book version and the audiobooks).
And i am informed that the four locations given are all printed in the book as well: "These 12 Talks are given at Lonavala, Nargol, Matheran and Mumbai". Locations are not specified for each talk but it is clear that the first three are from the same event at Lonavala. -- doofus-9 07:48, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
And to nail it down further, here are some Dates and Places (source Jagdish), with still a few missing:
- 1 - 23.12.67 pm, Workers Camp, Lonawala - Talks to Organizers
- 2 - 24.12.67 om, Workers Camp, Lonawala - Talks to Organizers
- 3 - 24.12.67 pm, Workers Camp, Lonawala - Talks to Organizers
- 4 - 25.12.67 am, Workers Camp, Lonawala - Talks to Organizers
- 5 - 24.12.67 am, Workers Camp, Lonawala - Talks to Organizers
[out of order but still a unique time of day]
- 6 - 31.10.68 am, Nargol - Talks to Organizers/Work
- 7 - date missing, Kasubhai's House, Bombay - Work (Purchase of a Property)
- 8 - 23.01.68 am, Bombay - Personal Interview
- 9 - 09.04.68 om, Eastern Chambers, Mombay [sic] - Talks to Workers organizer
- 10 - 18.10.69 om, Meditation Camp Matheran - talks to organizer
- 11 - 25.02.70 am - talks to organizer / Fund - Bombay
- 12 - 16.10.71 pm - work/ Talks to organizers - Bombay
- 13 - date missing
- 14 - date missing - Translated from English - Work is love Made Visible #14
--DhyanAntar 16:36, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
One small "correction" may be needed for discourse #9: Two other sources have it at Lonavala, including the e-book, so this "Eastern Chambers" being a little strange, may discount it somewhat. Agreeing on the date though.
- OTOH, a credible timeline for Jeevan Ras Ganga (जीवन रस गंगा) has shown up with two talks on Apr 9 in Mumbai, in the morning and evening. This leaves space for a talk to workers in mid-day in Mumbai, but Lonavala is too far away to be feasible, so it has been dropped in favour of Eastern Chambers. -- doofus-9 01:50, 25 December 2018 (UTC)
Re #10, no camp is known on this date anywhere. Nor is there a "nearby" camp at Matheran whereby this date might fit assuming a small typo. There is room for it in the timeline around this date, so it has been entered provisionally, with a and a link back here.
Re #11, a talk on this date is already entered in the timeline as Chal Hansa Us Des (चल हंसा उस देस) #3, that info having been obtained from Chal Hansa's e-book. According to Shifting content in Hindi books (source document), they are the same talk, compiled in two different books. The Date and Place info above confirms that. -- doofus-9 04:12, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
I have used Jagdish' list (and also the TOC with Hindi chapter titles above) for numbering the events, with one exception:
- I have exchanged #2 and #5: these are from a clear series (the workers camp), and in this way they are in historical order, just like osho.com does for it's audios and as is done in the English translation. So that makes the order 1-3-4-5-2.
I think Anant Ki Pukar ~ 10 belongs to 1967 Matheran med.camp:
- a) place of this event is Matheran, met.camp, date 18 Oct om from Jagdish (although he stated year 1969). Known meditation camp in Matheran was 18-21 Oct 1967, so it possible that this talk with organizers was given during Matheran camp on first date in afternoon;
- b) no med.camp Matheran in 1969. Osho planned to meet Ma Dharm Jyoti in Bombay at 5 pm or 8 pm at 27 Oct. 1969, it seems he was going to Dwarka camp. This letter, Letter written on 20 Oct 1969, can be written from Jabalpur, if so then he could not be in Matheran in 1969.
What do you think? May i move this event to 1967?--DhyanAntar 16:23, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
The event moved to 1967 as Osho's Itinerary gives other event in Delhi in 1969.--DhyanAntar 18:16, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
Hindi series of talks with dates 2 (source document): भविष्य की योजना, 1 talk, 23 Dec 1969, Lonavala. It could not be in 1969 due Ahmedabad talks in that year. It can be second event (ch.5 of Shailendra's PDF).--DhyanAntar 05:49, 4 September 2020 (UTC)