Talk:And Now, And Here, Vol 1

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A source stated: "Contains material from The Mysteries of Life and Death." This seems unlikely, as all the material from this book is from that one meditation camp at Dwarka. Instead, The Mysteries of Life and Death clearly consists of ch. 1 and 2 of And Now, And Here, Vol 2.

(But The Mysteries of Life and Death was later published in The Long and the Short and the All Ch. 5.) --Sugit (talk) 14:41, 12 November 2018 (UTC)


Neeten's Osho Source Book has Mysteries as a part of And Now, And Here, Vol 2, or more precisely, he says that ch 1 of Vol 2 has p 1-35 "only" of Mysteries. He also says it was published whole in Long and Short. The 1971 date is a pub date, not a discourse date. It now appears more accurate to say that Main Mrityu Sikhata Hun (मैं मृत्यु सिखाता हूं), the source of And Now, And Here, Vol 1 and And Now, And Here, Vol 2, is the source of Mysteries, rather than any edition or volume number of And Now, And Here "contains material from" it. Mysteries apparently has other sources than ch 1 of Vol 2 but they are just as likely bits from other chapters of Mrityu as from some independent source. And i'd say that this usage, "contains material from," simply reflects the fact that Mysteries was first published so much earlier than And Now, And Here, and possibly before Mrityu.

The other major source on this is the CD-ROM. According to it, the text for ch 8 of the combined And Now, And Here (15 talks), which is the first chapter of Vol 2, is close to identical to the long, uninterrupted part of ch 5 of Long and Short, which pretty much nails that connection. And Vol 2 is not given at Dwarka but Mumbai, starting on Nov 4, 1969, a few days after the Dwarka camp.

Neeten and other sources also say that And Now, And Here also "contains material from" The Gateless Gate – actually the CD-ROM hedges its bets and says "possibly" re Gateless. That (possible) connection is a whole other can of worms to be explored at another time. -- Sarlo (talk) 09:12, 15 September 2014 (PDT)


There is the comparison of Hindi and English chapters (for English books used joint numbering) for chapter order purpose, it means their completeness did not take into account.

Main Mrityu Sikhata Hun (मैं मृत्यु सिखाता हूं):
OW audios, osho.com audios,
Shailendra's PDF, book editions: 1991,
2003, 2018 OMI e-book
Main Mrityu Sikhata Hun (मैं मृत्यु सिखाता हूं),
book editions: 1973, 1976
And Now, And Here, Vol 1 &
And Now, And Here, Vol 2
(CD-ROM)
dates & places of talks
ch.1 ch.8 ch.8 (Vol 2 ch.1) 4 Nov 1969 pm, Bhulabhai Desai Auditorium,
Bombay
ch.2 ch.9 ch.9 (Vol 2 ch.2) 5 Nov 1969 am, Opera House, Bombay
ch.3 ch.1 ch.1 28 Oct 1969 pm, Dwarka, meditation camp
ch.4 ch.2 ch.2 29 Oct 1969 am, Dwarka, meditation camp
ch.5 ch.3 ch.3 29 Oct 1969 pm, Dwarka, meditation camp
ch.6 ch.4 ch.4 30 Oct 1969 am, Dwarka, meditation camp
ch.7 ch.5 ch.5 30 Oct 1969 pm, Dwarka, meditation camp
ch.8 ch.6 ch.6 31 Oct 1969 am, Dwarka, meditation camp
ch.9 ch.7 ch.7 31 Oct 1969 pm, Dwarka, meditation camp
ch.10 ch.10 ch.10 (Vol 2 ch.3) 1 Aug 1970 pm, CCI Chambers, Bombay
ch.11 ch.11 ch.11 (Vol 2 ch.4) 2 Aug 1970 pm, Bombay
ch.12 ch.12 ch.12 (Vol 2 ch.5) 3 Aug 1970 pm, Bombay
ch.13 ch.13 ch.13 (Vol 2 ch.6) 4 Aug 1970 pm, Bombay
ch.14 ch.14 ch.14 (Vol 2 ch.7) 5 Aug 1970 pm, Bombay
ch.15 ch.15 ch.15 (Vol 2 ch.8) 6 Aug 1970 pm, Bombay

Thus, first 9 chapters are not in order. I am curious about the real order of audios.--DhyanAntar 16:39, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

Updated by other Hindi editions. First two events are not in chronological order in the table, but they were at first published in Hindi and English editions in chronological order. All later editions got ch.8 and 9 on this place. What do you think about renaming of events according first Hindi edition (1973)? Current event system is based on first column.--DhyanAntar 09:21, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

What do we know about date/time of each event? Or can something be inferred from what Osho says? Or meditations at the end? --Sugit (talk) 04:18, 28 September 2020 (UTC)


Date is known well and confirmed by many sources, incl. first Hindi edition and CD-ROM. I added them in the table above. I don't see necessety to dive into text analysis. If it needs i can do extract from text.--DhyanAntar 05:09, 28 September 2020 (UTC)


Aha, so the first edition (1973 & 1976) are nicely in chronological order. And then all publications after that put 1969-11-04 and -05 out of order.

In our naming-system, we should use the order of those first editions. But my feeling is, for this case, to keep the naming as it is:

  • there is a present, consistent mass of publications using the other numbers,
  • and it will be mostly confusing to change it back.
  • Moreover, in this case, these two 1969-11-04 and -05 are completely separate events, they do not interfere with the order of a real series.

So that's my 2 cents. --Sugit (talk) 05:23, 28 September 2020 (UTC)


Thanks for your change! Now we have good picture of publishing history and why chapters of English editions are in chronological order.--DhyanAntar 05:26, 28 September 2020 (UTC)


Sorry, I am not awake yet. I missed the fact that the English translations have the ORIGINAL and chronological order, which is a strong argument to name them in the chronological way. Still, if we would rename the events in that way, then also our audio names will become different from the available audio everywhere else (including the intro). So I still tend to not change it... --Sugit (talk) 05:34, 28 September 2020 (UTC)