Talk:Asambhav Kranti (असंभव क्रांति)

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Current Understanding

event (*1) audio,
OshoWorld
audio,
Osho.com
1976 book ed. Shailendra's PDF Oshoganga,
OW e-book (*2)
Osho.com library Dates & Places
Asambhav Kranti ~ 01 #01 01. सत्य का द्वार 01. सत्य का द्वार 01. सत्य का द्वार 01. सत्य का द्वार 01. सत्य का द्वार 18 Oct 1967 pm, Matheran, meditation camp
Asambhav Kranti ~ 02 #02 02. (*3)
पुराने का विसर्जन, नये का जन्म
02. आत्मा के फूल
much incomplete in beginning and end
02. पुराने का विसर्जन, नये का जन्म 02. आत्मा के फूल
much incomplete in beginning and end
02. पुराने का विसर्जन, नये का जन्म 19 Oct 1967 am, Matheran, meditation camp
Asambhav Kranti ~ 03 #06 03. जीवन का आविर्भाव 03. जीवन का आविर्भाव 06. जीवन का आविर्भाव 03. जीवन का आविर्भाव 03. जीवन का आविर्भाव 19 Oct 1967 om**, Matheran, meditation camp
Asambhav Kranti ~ 04 #04
meditation is not complete
04. ध्यान की आंख
meditation is not complete
04. ध्यान की आंख
missing meditation part
04. ध्यान की आंख 04. ध्यान की आँख
missing meditation part (*2)
04. ध्यान की आंख 19 Oct 1967 pm, Matheran, meditation camp
Asambhav Kranti ~ 05 #05 05. (*3)
क्रांति का क्षण
05. क्रांति का क्षण
missing meditation part
05. क्रांति का क्षण 05. क्रांति का क्षण
missing meditation part
05. क्रांति का क्षण 20 Oct 1967 am, Matheran, meditation camp
Asambhav Kranti ~ 06 #03 06. मौन का स्वर 06. मौन का स्वर 03. मौन का स्वर 06. मौन का स्वर 06. मौन का स्वर 20 Oct 1967 om**, Matheran, meditation camp
Asambhav Kranti ~ 07 #07 07. सत्य का संगीत 07. सत्य का संगीत
missing meditation part
07. सत्य का संगीत 07. सत्य का संगीत
missing meditation part
07. सत्य का संगीत 20 Oct 1967 pm, Matheran, meditation camp
Asambhav Kranti ~ 08 #08 08. सृजन का सूत्र 08. सृजन का सूत्र
missing meditation part
08. सृजन का सूत्र 08. सृजन का सूत्र
missing meditation part
08. सृजन का सूत्र
missing meditation part
21 Oct 1967 am, Matheran, meditation camp
Asambhav Kranti ~ 09 #09 09. काम का रूपांतरण 09. काम का रूपांतरण 09. काम का रूपांतरण 09. काम का रूपांतरण 21 Oct 1967 om**, Matheran, meditation camp
Asambhav Kranti ~ 10 #10
incomplete
10. बस एक कदम
incomplete
09. बस एक कदम 10. बस एक कदम 10. बस एक कदम 10. बस एक कदम 21 Oct 1967 pm, Matheran, meditation camp
notes
(*1) about sequence of chapters see the bottom of the page.
(*2) OW e-book has the same chapter titles except one small difference in title for ch.4: "ध्यान की आंख".
(*3) this is audio that is also mentioned on OSHO.com as Panth Prem Ko Atpato #04, and there said to be missing, see also Talk:Panth Prem Ko Atpato

Deliberations

Couple of small things: The OMI edition is also attributed to Rebel, and its ISBN 9788172612665 is not supported by ISBN finders except Amazon.in. (Does that count?) And fwiw G**gle Books reports a 1989 edition but without any details.

There are two versions of TOC extant. Below is the audiobook version, supplied by both Osho World and osho.com. The OW e-book version differs from it in two respects: titles of ch 3 and 6 are interchanged and ch 2 has a completely different title, आत्मा के कूल.
ISBN 978-81-7261-266-5 confirmed by Rebel Publisher Book Price list 2018.11 and osho.com.--DhyanAntar 03:47, 27 March 2019 (UTC)


विषय सूची (TOC):
1: सत्य का द्वार
2: पुराने का विसर्जन, नये का जन्म
3: मौन का स्वर
4: ध्यान की आंख
5: क्रांति का क्षण
6: जीवन का आविर्भाव
7: सत्य का संगीत
8: सृजन का सूत्र
9: काम का रूपांतरण
10: बस एक कदम

The original source for dates and location of the discourses for this book was Doc X , not always reliable, but its data have been confirmed by the OW e-book, which explicitly states time and "Sadhana-Shivir Matheran" at the end of each chapter. First discourse is at night on Oct 18, 1967, thereafter there are three talks per day, given in the morning, afternoon/midday and night. -- updated doofus-9 (talk) 10:47, 9 November 2014 (PST)


It seems first edition has 9 chapters. Which one is missing and in which edition/book was been published at first? It is necessary to correct this info for corresponding event.--DhyanAntar 12:11, 21 February 2019 (UTC)


When ch.2 from Shailendra's PDF did not match with Panth Prem Ko Atpato (पंथ प्रेम को अटपटो) ch.4 (see Shifting content in Hindi books (source document)), i started to compare this PDF (10 ch.), stated in right column, with phisical book of first edition 1976 year (9 ch. - left column with dates from it). It is necessary to add that TOC of the PDF is the same as above TOC.

Ch.4 of Panth is combination of parts from ch.2 and 5 of Asambhav Kranti, see its talk-page.--DhyanAntar 09:12, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
Ch.1 (18.10.1969.pm) - ch.1
Ch.2 (19.10.1969.am) - none
Ch.3 (19.10.1969.om) - ch.6
Ch.4 (19.10.1969.pm) - ch.4 : two more page with a meditation, which missing in first edition
Ch.5 (20.10.1969.am) - ch.5 : one more page with a meditation, which missing in first edition
Ch.6 (20.10.1969.om) - ch.3
Ch.7 (20.10.1969.pm) - ch.7 : one more page with a meditation, which missing in first edition
Ch.8 (21.10.1969.am) - ch.8 : one more page with a meditation, which missing in first edition
Ch.9 (21.10.1969.pm) - ch.10

First edition states place meditation camp Matheran for all chapters. It is strange, but all dates have 1969 year.

This info arise more questions.--DhyanAntar 17:59, 31 December 2019 (UTC)


Asambhav Kranti date, Jagdish.jpg

Dates from Jagdish on the image.--DhyanAntar 15:48, 18 May 2020 (UTC)


Hindi series of talks with dates (source document) and Doc X (source document) for 18-21 Oct 1967. As first list is reliable enough, let 1967 be!

Letter written on 14 Oct 1967 to Sohan confirmes it too: "I am reaching Matheran on 18th. Are you getting Neral?" Neral is town in Maharashtra nearby Matheran.--DhyanAntar 13:17, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Oshoganga confirmes 1967 too.--DhyanAntar 10:32, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Extracts from text (of Shailendra's PDF):

Ch.1: welcome night's talk before the camp. "So, in these three days here, we will consider a little bit on this simple matter, can we even see ourselves? Isn't it possible that we change ourselves? Is it not possible for our vision to go on its own transformation and healing? Can it not be that we cover ourselves and become free from sorrows and sufferings. Will the wise people who gave advice to that king, we will continue to obey him? Will that old and straight man not even think of us? In this regard, I will tell you a few things these three days. Before those three days of discussions begin, I have to say a few more primary things today. Because the three days of life that will start from tonight, I would like - your mind will also want, that's why you have come here - that those three days should be days of achievement. In those three days a glimpse, a ray illuminates the darkness of life. In those three days, any route can be figured out..." In the end: "May God, you too be a master thief, a skilled thief. I will tell you here in three days the secret to teach that theft in stealing that big property. And if you have cooperation then this can happen. That's all for today. Because it was too much night. And those who have to prepare for the theft should go to their respective places."
Ch.2: 1st morning talk + meditation. Starts with a story of old church. "So I would like to ask you whether you are dead or alive this morning?" "First thing: a man whose knowledge is born in mind, then he is firsthand, fresh and new and as soon as he speaks, he becomes secondhand..." "So the first sutra: I want to tell you this morning..." "For the creation of that new mind, we will discuss in the coming two days on what basis that new mind can be created. Today I had to tell you this morning that you should be ready to see that the old mind is a disease, a slavery, a bondage, a disease. Then if this thing is seen, then the revolution that can happen in the mind can be considered."
Ch.3: 2nd afternoon talk, format q/a. Ends by "It is necessary to look at the facts, because truth is hidden within facts. In this regard, we will have some questions, we will talk about them at night. This afternoon meeting ended."
Ch.4: q/a + night meditation.
Ch.5: 2nd morning talk + meditation. "This morning I have to talk a little about the healthy mind. Yesterday I told you something about this should be young, fresh, new mind. (Reference to ch.2) On the morning of the second day, today, I want to say something in this regard. Because there is no healthy mind, no realization of truth is possible."
"We are all also liars. And as long as we are false people, we will remain unwell. We cannot be healthy. To be healthy it is necessary to be free from lies. By which lie? What we have created in relation to our personality, we have created. It is necessary to be free from this lie, which we have created by raising a web of ideals in our own way. And one who is not free from this lie can never have any connection with the truth. If personality is false then how will there be union with truth? To meet the truth one must have at least a true personality. At least the truth should be clear about what I am. So this morning I would like to say that this illusion, which we have kept around the ideals, we have become false men in that confusion. And our world has become a colony of lies. How can we see this, I will talk to you tomorrow morning to see that process. (Reference to ch.8) Now we will sit for morning meditation. Let me tell you two things regarding morning meditation, then we sit down."
Ch.6: 1st afternoon talk, format q/a. It starts by "In the morning we talked a little about the freedom of the mind." (Reference to ch.5) "We will try to understand it here in three days and from many angles." "The mind is healthy with awareness. And neither becomes fickle in the mind of the one who attains awareness. And due to lack of fidgeting, there is no need to concentrate. His mind instinctively wakes up completely on anything. Concentration is needed only because our mind does not wake up on one thing, so we try to awaken from one side to the other. We will be able to think more on this tomorrow morning. Your questions will be conveyed to you, at night we will talk about them. And the night after that discussion, we will sit for the night meditation. This afternoon meeting ended."
Ch.7: q/a + night meditation.
Ch.8: morning talk + meditation. Story about Urvashi, the most beautiful Apsara of heaven.
"The source of the most valuable life is to carry light in the dark chambers of the mind. We have to talk this morning only in that regard. How can we move light in the mind? A little light is present. If that much light is not present, then we cannot do anything. But little light is present. One corner of our mind, a little lamp is lit, there is light. You are listening to me in the same light. You are walking in the same light. In the same light you are getting up, thinking, living. In a small light. How to enlarge this light? There are two ways to enlarge this light..."
"I repeat the story from which I had started the three-day morning discussions. There was an old church. Had to fall." (Reference to ch.2) "The morning meeting ended."
Ch.9: afternoon talk + q/a. "In the morning I told the story of Urvashi." (Reference to ch.8) "And the questions remain, I will talk that night. (Reference to ch.10) This afternoon meeting ended."
Ch.10: last night talk of 3 days, format q/a + meditation. Starts by "On this last night of camp, we will be able to consider a few more questions. There are some questions that have arisen due to not being able to hear my words, thoughts or not being able to understand them properly." "So in the end, I would like to say: such living is not the same. Like the winds, like the leaves, like the water, like the clouds. Like we don't have any. Like i am not The greater the depth in which such a life will appear, the deeper the liberation comes near. Can live like this in these three days. I have said all the things for the same. Live like this, not like that. There is no deeper formula for spiritual practice. Now we will sit for the night meditation and then depart. This is the last night, so use to meditate very calmly."

Chapters 3 and 6 are not in chronological order, the rest are in, while 1976 edition has chronol.order of them.--DhyanAntar 10:32, 7 August 2020 (UTC)


Hindi series of talks with dates 2 (source document) lists the series as "Matheran Sadhana Shivir 1", 10 talks but with dates 20-23 Oct 1967. But on p.3 there is stated: "Asambhav Kranti (Matheran), 10 talks, 18-21 Oct 1967.--DhyanAntar 08:29, 2 September 2020 (UTC)