Difference between revisions of "Talk:Bhavna Ke Bhojpatron Par Osho (भावना के भोजपत्रों पर ओशो)"

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| (go to p.75) || 12 || undated || this is compact form of letter available on p.75
 
| (go to p.75) || 12 || undated || this is compact form of letter available on p.75
 
|-
 
|-
| (go to p.71) || 22 || 1969-01-05 || this is middle part of PS of letter on p.71, here is [[Letter written on 4 Jan 1961|manuscript]]
+
| (go to p.71) || 22 || 1969-01-05 || this is middle part of PS of letter on p.71
 
|-
 
|-
 
| (go to p.151) || 25 || 1962-08-16-om || the same as on p.151, but last part is compacted to one paragraph, here is wrong date (correct is 1962-08-17-om, as in [[Letter written on 17 Aug 1962 om|manuscript]])
 
| (go to p.151) || 25 || 1962-08-16-om || the same as on p.151, but last part is compacted to one paragraph, here is wrong date (correct is 1962-08-17-om, as in [[Letter written on 17 Aug 1962 om|manuscript]])
 
|-
 
|-
| (go to p.60) || 37 || 1960-11-22 || letter on pages 36-37, this is shortened version of letter on p.60, available as [[Letter written on 22 Nov 1960|manuscript]]
+
| (go to p.60) || 37 || 1960-11-22 || letter on pages 36-37, this is shortened version of letter on p.60
 
|-
 
|-
| (go to p.65) || 37 || undated || shortened version of letter on p.65, [[Undated Letter written to Anandmayee 002|manuscript]] available too
+
| (go to p.65) || 37 || undated || shortened version of letter on p.65
 
|-
 
|-
| (go to p.66) || 38 || 1960-11-29 || letter is on p.37-38, the same letter as on p.66 (difference in punctuation only + p.66 has wrong date); manuscript of this letter on wiki is [[Letter written on 29 Nov 1960]]
+
| (go to p.66) || 38 || 1960-11-29 || letter is on p.37-38, the same letter as on p.66 (difference in punctuation only + p.66 has wrong date)
 
|-
 
|-
 
| #1 || 40 || 1961-07-18 || manuscript available [[Letter written on 18 Jul 1961|here]]
 
| #1 || 40 || 1961-07-18 || manuscript available [[Letter written on 18 Jul 1961|here]]
Line 59: Line 59:
 
| (go to p.77) || 53 || no year-01-30-om || date stated before letter; the same letter as on p.77, [[Letter written on 30 Jan 1961 om|manuscript]] available. Year of the letter is 1961
 
| (go to p.77) || 53 || no year-01-30-om || date stated before letter; the same letter as on p.77, [[Letter written on 30 Jan 1961 om|manuscript]] available. Year of the letter is 1961
 
|-
 
|-
| (go to p.71-2) || 57 || 1961-01-03 || date stated before letter on p.56; letter on pages 56-57 and this is a little shortened version of letter on p.72, [[Letter written on 4 Jan 1961|manuscript]] available. PS printed on page 71.
+
| (go to p.71-2) || 57 || 1961-01-03 || date stated before letter on p.56; letter on pages 56-57 and this is a little shortened version of letter on p.72. PS printed on page 71.
 
|-
 
|-
| (go to p.82) || 59 || no year-mm-dd-xm || this is a little shortened version of letter on p.82; manuscript is available [[Letter written on 28 Feb 1961 xm]]
+
| (go to p.82) || 59 || no year-mm-dd-xm || this is a little shortened version of letter on p.82
 
|}
 
|}
  

Revision as of 07:44, 15 February 2020

Current Understanding

Much of what is hinted at, approached, in the (relatively short) deliberations below is still valid, but the main points are condensed and focused here:

1. This book, the Diamond 2002 and probably only edition, is a first edition in most senses, in that the bulk of it is material not published elsewhere previously, ie many letters from Osho to Ma Anandmayee, plus the "packaging".
2. The packaging for these letters is considerable. It consists of a long introduction by Vikal Gautam, then a much longer "interview", of Ma taken by Vikal ji, though only a real Hindi speaker can determine this, as the presentation is not very clear. This interview quotes liberally from Osho's letters to make many points. Most of these quotes are from letters which appear in full in the "letters only" later portion of the book. Thus, this Vikal Gautam has his name on the book as the author, whereas his role is more that of an editor of an anthology.
3. The core of the book, its raison d'être, it the letters. Anandmayee did try to get them published by Rebel/OIF, they said they would but in the event, didn't, so Vikal ji and Diamond have helped to make these letters available to Osho lovers everywhere.

Deliberations

The Diamond 2002 edition is all we have so far of this book. And that may be all there ever has been. The low production standards found in the first pages (before p 60) are so different from those after p 60, it is hard to imagine a preceding "house" edition (JJK, RF or Rebel) that Diamond just reproduced whole (more or less), as they have done with most of their Osho books. One measure of the lack of professionalism in the book is the inclusion of contact details of Osho's organizers in Mumbai, Delhi and other places, even addresses and phone numbers. This kind of thing is not seen in house editions.

Another indication that this is a Diamond-only edition is the name on the title page, which is not Osho but "Vikal Gautam". Vikal Gautam also writes a long introduction, after Keerti's short introduction, then come 48 pages of crowded, cramped text, quoting Osho liberally but clearly more than his letters. So it could easily be a personal initiative of this Vikal Gautam. Only a good reading by a real Hindi speaker will be able to sort out this first section, especially the part before p 25.

update: this sorting out has now happened, thanks to the transcriptions and report on same of Dilip Sodha. -- 19:19, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

The book has no Table of Contents -- also very un-typical -- so this page is an attempt to organize one. Below are two tables, one for the first 60 pages, the other for the rest of the book, showing which dates of letters are found on which pages of that book, based on scans of the book. Eventually it is hoped that most of the contents can be linked to images of original letters. -- doofus-9 05:13, 21 November 2019 (UTC)


Added first edition category. We do not know an earlier edition of this book or other book, which includes all these letters. Unless the opposite will not be proved, this book will stay as first edition.

The question about events: what title we will use? Some manuscripts found in this book as published, search "Bhavna" on Letters to Anandmayee.--DhyanAntar 10:01, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Interview with Ma Anandmayee

Table entries indicate where passages END, ie where Osho's signature or equivalent appears, with or without a date. ** = Likely too long to be one single letter, whether dated or not. Note also that information between letter content such as dates, location or signature, especially in the earlier pages, may be ambiguous as to which letter it applies to, as there may be no demarcating lines or spacing. Therefore, mistakes may be made. Links will be provided eventually to wiki images of letters, if and when.

Vikal Ji's interview of Ma Anandmayee runs from p.13-59 of BKBPO and many letters are quoted in them. Letter numbers in this and in the next table refer to the unique number of the letter. Most letters are presented in second part of the book, from page 60, and this first part (before p.60) can thus be thought of as a big introduction. Some letters are NOT presented in the second part, so they have their own unique letter number.

letter no. page # letter date wiki image?, notes
(go to p.75) 12 undated this is compact form of letter available on p.75
(go to p.71) 22 1969-01-05 this is middle part of PS of letter on p.71
(go to p.151) 25 1962-08-16-om the same as on p.151, but last part is compacted to one paragraph, here is wrong date (correct is 1962-08-17-om, as in manuscript)
(go to p.60) 37 1960-11-22 letter on pages 36-37, this is shortened version of letter on p.60
(go to p.65) 37 undated shortened version of letter on p.65
(go to p.66) 38 1960-11-29 letter is on p.37-38, the same letter as on p.66 (difference in punctuation only + p.66 has wrong date)
#1 40 1961-07-18 manuscript available here
(go to p.75) 42 1961-01-18 shortened version of letter on p.75
(go to p.75) 44 undated, short this is first paragraph of the letter on p.75
(go to p.183) 46 1962-12-12 the same letter as on p.183, but there is not mentioned any date
(go to p.107) 47 1962-03-22-pm the letter on p.46-47 (PS lasts for one paragraph), this is the same as on p.107
#2 49 1961-12-02 date stated before letter; on wiki, Letter written on 2 Dec 1961; PS not published in the book
(go to p.117) 50 1962-05-09 date stated before letter; the same letter as on page 117 but with wrong date 1962-05-08; manuscript available here
#3 52 1961-06-08 date stated before letter; this is first part of Letter written on 8 Jun 1961
(go to p.77) 53 no year-01-30-om date stated before letter; the same letter as on p.77, manuscript available. Year of the letter is 1961
(go to p.71-2) 57 1961-01-03 date stated before letter on p.56; letter on pages 56-57 and this is a little shortened version of letter on p.72. PS printed on page 71.
(go to p.82) 59 no year-mm-dd-xm this is a little shortened version of letter on p.82

Main letter section

From here onward, all pages are in a new spacious format, max one letter per page. Dates in the second column are as in the book. Note that quite a few of them are wrong, perhaps hurriedly transcribed, with a 1 or a 10 being mistaken for a 9 the most frequent types, but not the only such errors.

letter no. page # letter date wiki
image
notes
#4 60 undated in wiki manuscript gives 22 Nov 1960 date. There is a shortened version on p.36-37 with this date
#5 61 1960-10-05 in wiki
#6 62 1960-10-13
#7 63 undated in wiki
#8 64 1960-10-10 in wiki date differs from manuscript: (correct) date there is 25 Nov 1960
#9 65 undated in wiki short version also available on p.37
#10 66 1960-11-22 in wiki same letter as on p 37-38 but different date; p 66 is wrong, 37-38 right, confirmed by manuscript, 29 Nov 1960
#11 67 1960-12-08 in wiki
#12 68-9 1960-12-15-pm (p.68)
1960-12-15-om (p.69)
in wiki PS printed on p.68, page 69 contain text of main letter
#13 70 1960-12-27 in wiki
#14 71-2 undated (p.71)
1961-01-03 (p.72)
in wiki page 71 = परिशिष्ट (appendix), 3 parts, to Shanta, Parakhji and Maan. Manuscript gives the date 4 Jan 1961. Second part printed also on p.22 with incorrect date 5 Jan 1969.
Page 72 = main letter, shortened version is available p.56-57
#15 73-4 1961-01-10 in wiki
#16 75 1961-01-18-xm in wiki first paragraph of this letter available also on p.44
#17 76 1961-01-26 in wiki book has transcribed year (as 1969) and other things incorrectly
but this is the same letter, written from Sagar
#18 77-8 1961-01-30-om (p.77)
1961-01-30-am (p.78)
in wiki page 78: main letter. Page 77 - PS, to Maan. PS repeated on p.53 with left out year (rest date is correct)
#19 79 1961-02-07-xm in wiki
#20 80 1961-02-12 in wiki some transcription errors, day mentioned as ravivar (Sunday)
#21 81-2 1961-02-22 (p.81)
1961-02-22-xm (p.82)
in wiki Page 82 = main letter; Page 81 = PS, to Padm and Phadke Guruji; date differs from manuscript: 29 Feb 1961 am (we used 1 Mar as this year is not leap). The same letter with a bit shortened form available on p.59
#22 83 undated in wiki
#23 84 1961-03-08-am in wiki
#24 85-86 1961-03-19-pm in wiki here is incorrect date as manuscript has 16th March 1961 pm
#25 87 undated-pm in wiki manuscript gives the date 26 Mar 1961
#26 88 undated in wiki PS format -- to Shri Parakhji, then to Padm, then to Maan, with upcoming dates mentioned at end 28 Mar - 2 Apr
#27 89 1961-04-15-am in wiki
#28 90 1961-04-25-om in wiki
#29 91 1962-01-23 written on or sent from a train
#30 92 1962-01-25-om in wiki
#31 93 1962-01-25 in wiki date differs from manuscript: (correct) date there is 28 Jan 1962
#32 94 1962-02-01-pm in wiki PS missing in the book
#33 95 1962-02-07 in wiki
#34 96 1962-02-11-am in wiki has a PS, salutation just plain "Maan"
#35 97 1962-02-15-pm in wiki
#36 98 1969-02-10-pm in wiki year may be mistaken, as on p 76. Date in manuscript is 19 Feb 1962
#37 99 1962-02-24-pm in wiki
#38 100 1962-03-02-om in wiki
#39 101 1962-03-06-om in wiki addressed to Shri Parakh ji
#40 102 1962-03-06 in wiki
#41 103 1962-03-08 in wiki
#42 104 1962-03-13 in wiki
#43 105 1962-03-16-om in wiki
#44 106 1962-03-18-om in wiki PS mentions dates in April
#45 107 1962-03-22-pm in wiki PS mentions dates in April. This letter repeated also on p.46-47
#46 108 1962-03-25 in wiki
#47 109 1962-03-28 in wiki PS missing in the book
#48 110 undated in wiki PS mentions dates in April. Manuscript gives date 30 Mar 1962
#49 111 undated in wiki manuscript gives date 12 Apr 1962
#50 112-3 1962-04-17
on tour (Ujjain)
in wiki
#51 114 1962-04-28 in wiki date differs from manuscript: (correct) date there is 20 Apr 1962. PS mentions dates in May
#52 115 1962-04-25-xm in wiki
#53 116 1962-04-28-am in wiki
#54 117 1962-05-08 in wiki the same letter printed on page 50 but with date 1962-05-09. Manuscript confirms date 9 May.
#55 118-9 1962-05-11
on tour (Prayag)
in wiki
#56 120-1 1962-05-15
on tour (Kanpur)
in wiki
#57 122 1962-05-17-am in wiki PS mentions dates in later May
#58 123-4 1962-05-18 in wiki on tour (Narsinghpur). Date differs from manuscript: (correct) date there is 19 May 1962. PS mentions upcoming 10-day stay in Gadarwara
#59 125 1962-05-22-om in wiki from Gadarwara
#60 126-7 1962-05-23-am
from Gadarwara
in wiki
#61 128-9 1962-05-26-om
from Gadarwara
in wiki PS not printed in the book
#62 130 1962-05-31 in wiki
#63 131-2 1962-06-06 in wiki PS not printed in the book
#64 133 1962-06-08-pm in wiki
#65 134 1962-06-11 in wiki
#66 135-6 1962-06-14-pm in wiki
#67 137 1962-06-17 in wiki
#68 138-9 1962-06-21 in wiki
#69 140 1962-06-24-am in wiki
#70 141 1962-06-25 in wiki date on manuscript looks as 30 Jun 1962 om
#71 142 1962-06-27 in wiki date differs from manuscript: (correct) date there is 29 Jun 1962
#72 143 1962-07-28-am in wiki date differs from manuscript: (correct) date there is 25 Jul 1962 am
#73 144 1962-07-29-am in wiki date differs from manuscript: (correct) date there is 21 Jul 1962 am
#74 145 1962-07-30-xm in wiki
#75 146 1962-08-01 in wiki
#76 147 1962-08-04 in wiki
#77 148-9 1962-08-07-xm in wiki p 148-149 one letter: no sig on p 148, text runs to bottom, p 149 text very short, no greeting. Note PS dated separately from letter AND different between book (8 Aug om) and original letter (9 Aug om)
#78 150 1962-08-14 in wiki on tour (Narsinghpur)
#79 151 1962-08-17-om in wiki PS mentions event Aug 31. The same letter on p.25 with incorrect date 1962-08-16-om
#80 152 1962-08-26 in wiki PS mentions events Aug 31 - Sep 3 in Mumbai
#81 153 1962-08-27 in wiki
#82 154 1962-09-05-pm in wiki
#83 155 1962-09-09-pm in wiki
#84 156 1962-09-14 in wiki
#85 157 1962-09-21 in wiki same date as p 169, that date wrong, different letter; original letter has a short PS, omitted here
#86 158 1962-09-22 in wiki same date as p 166, that date wrong, different letter
#87 159-60 1962-09-24 in wiki p 159-160 one letter: no sig on p 159, text runs to bottom, p 160 text short, no greeting, no date, PS
#88 161 1962-09-25 in wiki original letter has a short PS, omitted here
#89 162 1962-09-27 in wiki
#90 163 1962-09-29 in wiki PS has address & phones in Bombay for "Tarachand Sant, Kothari" (though name is partially in error); same date as p 168, that date wrong, different letter
#91 164 1962-10-12
#92 165 1962-10-28 in wiki date in original letter does not look like 28/10, rather 08/10, see letter's talk page
#93 166 1962-09-22 in wiki same date as p 158, date in original letter is clearly 22 Oct
#94 167 1962-10-23-am in wiki
#95 168 1962-09-29 in wiki same date as p 163, date in original letter is clearly 29 Oct, from Gadarwara, PS says he has "come home" from 24th to 31st
#96 169 1962-09-21 in wiki same date as p 157, date in original letter is clearly 29 Oct, from Gadarwara, PS mentions going to Jabalpur on 31st. Note also 168 and 169 both actually are the same date but ARE different letters
#97 170 1962-11-01 in wiki short PS is dated 1962-11-02
#98 171 1962-11-04-pm in wiki
#99 172 1962-11-09 in wiki
#100 173 1962-11-12 in wiki noted as "purnima", full moon
#101 174-5 1962-11-18-pm in wiki p 174-175 one letter: no sig or date on p 174, text runs to bottom, p 175 no greeting, but has date and sig
#102 176 1962-11-29 in wiki original letter is dated 21 Nov
#103 177 1962-03-24-om in wiki wrong month, original letter clearly 24 Nov
#104 178 1962-11-27 in wiki
#105 179 1962-11-30 in wiki
#106 180 1962-12-03 in wiki
#107 181 1962-12-08 in wiki
#108 182 1962-12-11 in wiki
#109 183 undated in wiki solely an events report, upcoming Dec 22+, arrived in Satna Dec 14. This letter repeated on p.46 with date 1962-12-12, also confirmed by manuscript image
#110 184 1962-12-15 in wiki from Chhatarpur (MP)
#111 185-6 1963-01-04-pm in wiki p 185-186 one letter: no sig on p 185, text runs to bottom, p 186 no greeting, no date
#112 187-8 1963-01-08-am in wiki p 187-188 one letter: sig on p 187, PS one incomplete line, p 188 no greeting, no date, no sig. Last line (offset) offers blessings to Shanta but truncated. Original PS is approx cut by half.
#113 189 1963-01-10 in wiki
#114 190-1 1963-01-16 in wiki p 190-191 one letter: no sig on p 190, text runs to bottom, p 191 no greeting, no date. PS mentions events coming Jan 29 - Feb 2
#115 192 1963-01-21 in wiki
#116 193-4 1963-01-25 in wiki PS mentions leaving for Udaipur Jan 27
#117 195-6 undated in wiki PS mentions Feb 3. Manuscript gives date 28 Jan 1963 am. Last sentence of letter (before PS) is missing in the book
#118 197 1963-02-04 in wiki
#119 198 1963-02-06 in wiki book has year as 1962, presumed mistaken. Yes, year 1963 confirmed by manuscript
#120 199 1963-02-11-am in wiki
#121 200-1 1963-02-17 in wiki p 200-201 one letter: no sig on p 200, text runs to bottom, p 201 no date, no greeting, PS mentions Mar 2-3 events, + address and phone of Sundarlal Jain. ALERT: Letter image has a different date, 19 Feb!
#122 202-3 1963-02-23-pm in wiki p 202-203 one letter: no date or sig on p 202, text runs to bottom, p 203 text starts in middle of sentence, has date, no greeting, no PS
#123 204-5 1963-03-02-am in wiki p 204-205 one letter, written from Delhi: no sig on p 204, text runs to bottom, p 205 no date, no greeting, PS mentions Mar 8 event
#124 206 1963-03-06-om in wiki
#125 207 1963-03-12-pm in wiki
#126 208 1963-03-18 in wiki
#127 209 1963-03-22-xm in wiki
#128 210 1963-03-27 in wiki
#129 211 1963-03-28-am in wiki
#130 212 1963-04-03 in wiki
#131 213 1963-04-07 in wiki written from Indore, very short
#132 214-5 1963-04-12-om in wiki p 214-215 one letter: no sig on p 214, text runs to bottom, p 215 no date, no greeting
#133 216 1963-04-18-xm in wiki
#134 217 1963-04-23-am in wiki
#135 218 1963-05-16-om in wiki
#136 219-220 1963-05-24-om in wiki written from Gadarwara. Year of the letter stated in the book is incorrect, it should be 1962, which taken from manuscript
#137 221 1963-05-26 in wiki
#138 222 1963-06-03
#139 223 1963-06-04 in wiki
#140 224 1963-06-12
#141 225 1963-06-14 in wiki
#142 226 1963-06-16 in wiki
#143 227 1963-06-20 in wiki
#144 228 1963-06-25-am in wiki
#145 229 1963-07-02-am in wiki book has year as 1993, PS mentions speaking in Allahabad "tomorrow"
#146 230 1963-07-05-om in wiki Book has date as 4th Jul om, but this is the same letter. PS mentions writing on tour from Sachcha Baba Ashram, Arail, a district of Allahabad
#147 231-2 1963-07-16-pm in wiki p 231-232 one letter: no sig on p 231, text runs to bottom, p 232 no date, no greeting
#148 233-4 1963-07-25 in wiki written on tour from Nepanagar MP, p 233-234 one long letter: no sig on p 233, text runs to bottom, p 234 no date, no greeting; PS mentions events 3-5 Aug + contact info for Prafulla Chandra
#149 235 1963-08-11-om
#150 236 1963-08-15 in wiki long PS on reverse side of original is omitted, perhaps not noticed?
#151 237-8 1963-08-18-pm in wiki p 237-238 one letter written on tour from Indore: date but no sig on p 237, text runs to bottom, p 238 no greeting
#152 239-40 1963-08-28 in wiki p 239-240 one letter written on tour from Damoh (MP): date but no sig on p 239, text runs to bottom, p 240 no greeting
#153 241 1963-08-26-pm written to Sharda
#154 242 1963 in wiki "1963" is the only date info in the letter overtly.
#155 243 1963-09-15 in wiki
#156 244 1963-11-19-am in wiki PS mentions Taaran Taran birthday celebration 23-25 Dec
#157 245 1963-11-09 in wiki "करनी" written above date, just means "doings", implications unclear.
#158 246 1963-11-29 in wiki Date typed in actual letter is 22 Nov
#159 247 1963-12-01 in wiki PS on reverse side of original is omitted, perhaps not noticed?
#160 248 1963-12-16-am in wiki
#161 249 1963-12-07-om
#162 250 1964-02-21-am p 250 & 251 likely one letter written on two pages: no date, no sig on p 250, text runs to bottom, p 251 date but no greeting
251
#163 252 1964-01-05
#164 253 1964-01-31-am
#165 254 undated
#166 255 1964-01-17 short letter with lots of "........." mentions 23 Feb
#167 256 1964-01-29
#168 257 1964-08-27 PS includes address of Ramanlal C Shah

Dilip ji's observations

{{Ma as a known social worker running a 'Balseva Mandir (orphanage)' at Chanda, was invited to a session organized at Bajaj Wadi (WARDHA) by "Akhil Bhartiya Jain Mahamandal" - in 1960. Osho was specially invited to give a lecture and express his unique views at the meet. She was spell bound and felt whole blood rushing to her heart when incidentally Osho came face to face while she was entering Bajajwadi on her arrival from Chanda in the morning by a passenger train. At that time, Bhikamachand Ji Deshalhara introduced Osho to Ma as Acharya Rajneesh Ji a learned professor in Philosophy Robertson College (Mahakaushal Mahavidyalay), Jabalpur and Ma to Osho as Shreemati Madan Kunvar Parakh - a Social Worker from Chanda. While staying at Bajajwadi she conversed with Osho to know what's behind this saintly looking dadhiwale baba. She was more anxious to find her lost son (it was a long cherished desire over many years of her life then). After returning to Chanda she was very much disturbed that why Osho didn't call her Ma when she had the strong feeling of it as soon as she saw him for the 1st time and had a chat with him. Why she was flying away in the cyclone of thoughts and feelings on return at Chanda - desiring to reconnect with this unknown person, a letter from Rajneesh's father Shri Babulal Ji came expressing desire to see the mother of Rajneesh - how is that fortunate mother? - who is she? - when I will touch the feet of this virtuous mother? On receiving this letter Ma felt as she found everything and oblivion of all surrounding sounds she became enchanted.}} The bracketed text is small excerpt from the dialogues between Ma and Vikal Ji published in BKBPO - through P 13 to 59. We don't have Ma's 1st letter written to Osho but from this letter dated 5th Oct 1960 it's clear that she invited him to Chanda. Osho informs in this 1st letter to her that he is also very eager to visit Chanda and receive her love - he will visit during the holidays in December. (Dilip)--DhyanAntar 10:21, 13 February 2020 (UTC)