Talk:Dekh Kabira Roya (देख कबीरा रोया)

- This page is under construction

Current understanding

event	audio, OshoWorld	audio, Osho.com	1979 book ed. (*1)	Shailendra's PDF	Oshoganga	Other book editions	Dates & Places
Aswikriti Mein Utha Haath ~ 01	#1	Asvikriti Mein Utha Hath 1. एक मृत महापुरुष का जन्म missining greetings	1. (date: 2 Dec 1968, Bombay) (*2)	Aswikriti Mein Utha Haath 1. एक मृत महापुरुष का जन्म	Aswikriti Mein Utha Haath 1. एक मृत महापुरुष का जन्म	Aswikriti Mein Utha Haath (अस्वीकृति में उठा हाथ), 1972, ch.1 Bharat, Gandhi Aur Main (भारत, गांधी और मैं), 1974ed., ch.1	2 Dec 1968 pm, Bombay (*2)
Aswikriti Mein Utha Haath ~ 02	#2	Asvikriti Mein Utha Hath 2. संचेतना के ठोस आयाम	4. (date: 3 Dec 1968, Bombay) (*2)	Aswikriti Mein Utha Haath 2. संचेतना के ठोस आयाम	Aswikriti Mein Utha Haath 2. संचेतना के ठोस आयाम	Aswikriti Mein Utha Haath (अस्वीकृति में उठा हाथ), 1972, ch.4 Bharat, Gandhi Aur Main (भारत, गांधी और मैं), 1974ed., ch.4	3 Dec 1968 am, Bombay (*2)
Aswikriti Mein Utha Haath ~ 03	#3	Asvikriti Mein Utha Hath 3. एक और असहमति	2. (date: 2 Dec 1968, Bombay) (*2)	Aswikriti Mein Utha Haath 3. एक और असहमति	Aswikriti Mein Utha Haath 3. एक और असहमति	Aswikriti Mein Utha Haath (अस्वीकृति में उठा हाथ), 1972, ch.2 Bharat, Gandhi Aur Main (भारत, गांधी और मैं), 1974ed., ch.2	3 Dec 1968 pm, Bombay (*2)
Aswikriti Mein Utha Haath ~ 04	#4	Asvikriti Mein Utha Hath 4. लकीरों से हट कर	7. (date: 5 Dec 1968, Bombay) (*2)	Aswikriti Mein Utha Haath 4. लकीरों से हट कर	Aswikriti Mein Utha Haath 4. लकीरों से हट कर	Aswikriti Mein Utha Haath (अस्वीकृति में उठा हाथ), 1972, ch.7 Bharat, Gandhi Aur Main (भारत, गांधी और मैं), 1974ed., ch.7	4 Dec 1968 am, Bombay (*2)
Aswikriti Mein Utha Haath ~ 05	#5	Asvikriti Mein Utha Hath 5. अतीत के मरघट से मुक्ति	3. (date: 3 Dec 1968, Bombay) (*2)	Aswikriti Mein Utha Haath 5. अतीत के मरघट से मुक्ति	Aswikriti Mein Utha Haath 5. अतीत के मरघट से मुक्ति	Aswikriti Mein Utha Haath (अस्वीकृति में उठा हाथ), 1972, ch.3 Bharat, Gandhi Aur Main (भारत, गांधी और मैं), 1974ed., ch.3	4 Dec 1968 pm, Bombay (*2)
Aswikriti Mein Utha Haath ~ 06	#6	Asvikriti Mein Utha Hath 6. तोड़ने का एक और उपक्रम	5. (date: 4 Dec 1968, Bombay) (*2)	Aswikriti Mein Utha Haath 6. तोड़ने का एक और उपक्रम	Aswikriti Mein Utha Haath 6. तोड़ने का एक और उपक्रम	Aswikriti Mein Utha Haath (अस्वीकृति में उठा हाथ), 1972, ch.5 Bharat, Gandhi Aur Main (भारत, गांधी और मैं), 1974ed., ch.5	5 Dec 1968 am, Bombay (*2)
Ek Ek Kadam ~ 04	Ek Ek Kadam #4	Ek Ek Kadam 4. अहिंसा का सार है--प्रेम	6. (date: 4 Dec 1968, Bombay) (*2)	Aswikriti Mein Utha Haath 7. उगती हुई जमीन (*3) end incomplete Ek Ek Kadam 4. अहिंसा का सार है--प्रेम	Aswikriti Mein Utha Haath 7. उगती हुई जमीन (*3) end incomplete	Aswikriti Mein Utha Haath (अस्वीकृति में उठा हाथ), 1972, ch.6 Bharat, Gandhi Aur Main (भारत, गांधी और मैं), 1974ed., ch.6 Ek Ek Kadam (एक एक कदम), 2019 ebook, ch.4	≤ 1970 (*2)
Aswikriti Mein Utha Haath ~ 08		Asvikriti Mein Utha Hath 7. अँधेरे कूपों मैं हलचल "Audio Not Available"	8. (date: 5 Dec 1968, Bombay) (*2)	Aswikriti Mein Utha Haath 8. अंधेरे कूपों में हलचल	Aswikriti Mein Utha Haath 8. अंधेरे कूपों में हलचल	Aswikriti Mein Utha Haath (अस्वीकृति में उठा हाथ), 1972, ch.8 Bharat, Gandhi Aur Main (भारत, गांधी और मैं), 1974ed., ch.8	1968 or 1969 ?, Bombay ? (*2), (*4)

(*1) This edition is edited. Other order of chapter can be explained by putting q/a talks after discourses.

(*2) It seems dates in this later edition (1979) was involved, while 1972 and 1974 editions has no dates, and are incorrect. Because:

• below view of text shown unity of first 6 events and two last additional events. Other good argument about two additional talks is including 7th event in Ek Ek Kadam series in audio series and ebook;
• order of chapters in this edition as well as in other two editions is not chronological, but dates given in the edition: 2 talks per day. According to view of extracts (at bottom of the page) first event was evening and second - on next morning.
  

Hindi series of talks with dates (source document) gives info that there is 6 talks from 2 to 5 Dec 1968. It looks truthfully: talk in Rajkot on 1 Dec, returning to Bombay and evening talk on 2 Dec, 3-4 Dec - two talks/day, last talk on 5 Dec on morning. As first discourse was evening then in the morning q/a session, therefore this order (evening discourse + q/a on next day) was respected in first 6 events, we will keep this time model for talks untill other reliable source will appear.
Some other sources says 4 talks on 2-3 Dec, which not pass well with first talk in evening (on first day of 3-day session). Or it is possible with other addional talk on 3 Dec, i.e. three talks on that date? Unclear.

(*3) These texts are edited.

(*4) This date can be 5 Dec 1968, as Jagdish says. But Osho Timeline 1968 is overloaded with event on the date and it seems they are not related with current ch.8.

Deliberations

The (partial) e-book at Osho World and other fine sites which have copied from it does a lot to confirm the basic structure of Dekh, and likely its one-time publication. It is unusual in these e-books to have such a clear TOC, with page numbers and sections. Unfortunately, it does not have the whole book's text, only about one quarter of it, and in that only three dates and places for the talks, but that too helps to confirm its basic era. Neeten's Appendix section also has a couple of mentions of Dekh: one with dates overlapping those of the e-book gives four talks on Dec 2 and 3, 1968. They fit very well if applied to the first four chapters. Neeten's other mention is more of a smilie-btw: the soundtrack of that Bollywood flick was among Osho's collection of LP's that he listened to regularly in the 60s.

The e-book's TOC below appears after the foreword. Two systems of page numbers are referenced in it: The main one gives page numbers for each of the thirty chapters, and strongly suggests a one-time hard copy of the three-in-one version of Dekh. The sporadic one, with numbers in parentheses, references pages of the e-book where particular info is found. -- doofus-9 (talk) 17:06, 20 December 2014 (PST)

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Shailendra has come along with some info on Dekh. He says that discourse #21 is Where Are the Gandhians?, putting it on Jul 19, 1969. This has more or less been confirmed via audio research, and for that matter, it can be seen in the TOC table below. See WatG's talk page for details.

A second column has been added to the TOC to represent osho.com and Osho World audiobook offerings. Both have discourses in the same order, paralleling that of the e-book, but excluding Aswikriti, which is offered separately by o.com and not at all by OW. Thus the e-book's ch 9 = the audiobook's discourse 1, and so on. They are each missing some chapters / discourses, indicated with an *, but each chapter is available at one or the other, except for #7 & 8 from Aswikriti. -- doofus-9 03:03, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

Chapter number, name, page-numbers in the book	OSHO.com audio	OW audio
Foreword by Ashakarana Pathak अनुक्रम (TOC): Aswikriti Mein Utha Haath (अस्वीकृति में उठा हाथ) 1. एक मृत महापुरुष का जन्मा 1-15 2. एक और असहमति 17-28 3. अतीत के मरघट से मुक्ति 29-41 4. संचेतना के ठोस आयाम 43-56 -- Mumbai, 3 Dec 1968 (p 50) 5. तोड़ने का एक और उपक्रम 57-68 -- Mumbai, 4 Dec 1968 (p 59) 6. उगती हुई जमीन 69-80 -- Mumbai, 4 Dec 1968 (p 70) 7. लकीरों से हट कर 81-92 8. अंधेरे कूपों में हलचल 93-102 -- This chapter omitted in e-book		1 2 3 4 5 6 7* 8*
Gandhiwaad: Ek Aur Sameeksha (गांधीवाद : एक और समीक्षा) 9. गांधी का चिंतन अवैज्ञानिक है 103-115 -- This chapter goes on from (p 80) to the end of the e-book on (p 114) with no apparent chapter break, so it very likely has incorporated other material, perhaps even the whole of the rest of Gandhiwaad, though the chap 10 and 11 titles were not seen on closer re-inspection. 10. मेरी दृष्टि में रचनात्मक क्या है 117-130 11. गांधीवाद ही नहीं, वाद मात्र के विरोध में हूं 131-146	1 2 3	9 10 11
Dekh Kabira Roya (देख कबीरा रोया) 12. समाजवाद का पहला कदम: पूंजीवाद 147-172 13. समाजवाद: पूंजीवाद का विकास 173-190 14. पूंजीवाद का दर्शन 191-205 15. भौतिक समृद्धि: अध्यात्म का आधार 207-219 16. विध्वंस: सृजन का प्रारंभ 221-235 17. असली अपराधी: राजनीतिज्ञ 237-260 18. प्रेम-विवाह: जातिवाद का अंत 261-272 19. परस्पर-निर्भरता और विश्व नागरिकता 273-290 20. वैज्ञानिक विकास और बदलते जीवन-मूल्य 291-305 21. गांधीवादी कहां हैं ? 307-325 22. विचार-क्रांति की भूमिका 327-341 23. गांधी की रुग्ण-दृष्टि 343-358 24. राष्ट्रभाषा: अ-लोकतांत्रिक 359-377 25. समाजवाद: परिपक्व पूंजीवाद का परिणाम 379-392 26. गांधीवाद: दरिद्रता का दर्शन 393-406 27. गांधी पर पुनर्विचार 407-424 28. अनिवार्य संतति-नियमन 425-437 29. गांधी से मुक्ति 439-447 30. देख कबीरा रोया 449-452	4 5 6 7* 8* 9 10 11 12* 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21* 22*	12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26* 27 28* 29* 30

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Hindi series of talks with dates (source document): "Gandhi par Punar, 1 talk, 07.12.68". It seems ch.27.

Hindi series of talks with dates (source document): 1. Santati Niyaman [Birth Control]; 2) Child Education, 2 talks, 22-26.05.70". Birth control chapter can be ch.28 of Dekh Kabira Roya, ch.2 of Jansankhya Visphot (जनसंख्‍या विस्‍फोट), ch.7 of Ek Ek Kadam (एक एक कदम) or ?--DhyanAntar 04:26, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Hindi series of talks with dates (source document): "Gandhi Vadi Kahan Hai?, 1 talk, 19.07.69", confirms ch.21 (see also discussion above). -- doofus-9 21:56, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

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Today Shailendra gave dates on two talks:

Dekh Kabira Roya ch.16 (it is in osho.com audio order because this chapter numbered as ch.24 on OW and in 1979ed., meanwhile 1979ed. confirmes 25 Dec 1969, Ahmedabad): 25 Dec 1969 afternoon, Ahmedabad

Dekh Kabira Roya ch.17 (it's in osho.com audios order. Numbered as ch.25 on OW and in 1979ed., the latter confirmes 26 Dec 1969, Ahmedabad): 26 Dec 1969 afternoon, Ahmedabad

--DhyanAntar 11:31, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

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Hindi series of talks with dates 2 (source document): देख कबीरा रोया, 1 talk, Nargol, 5 May 1970. Judging by date and place it should be given in Nargol camp, series Jin Khoja Tin Paiyan (जिन खोजा तिन पाइयां). It is unclear relation it with ch.30.--DhyanAntar 07:49, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

media status

I have added a third column with the numbers of the other OshoWorld audio offering, the free downloads. Numbers with * are missing. It should be checked if these audios really are the same recording. --Sugit (talk) 07:25, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

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Shailendra's e-book has the same TOC except the order of first 8 chapters: 1-1, 2-3, 3-5, 4-2, 5-6, 6-7, 7-4, 8-8 .--DhyanAntar 07:51, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

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And fwiw, this different order of chapter numbers corresponds to the audiobook offerings on osho.com, EXCEPT that a) they have no #8, b) #6's title is not found in their aggregation, c) they have used #8's title (अँधेरे कूपों मैं हलचल) for their #7 but it is still unavailable, and d) they have made #7 available by making it #4. -- doofus-9 18:54, 22 December 2018 (UTC)