Talk:Geeta-Darshan (गीता-दर्शन) (series)
Much of the earlier discussion below was about exploring all the sources of the day and sifting through their info to arrive at some sensible view of some pretty basic stuff, like how many discourses in each volume. That discussion has been retained but it currently has much that is obsolete, especially since the arrival of a detailed set of info about one of the volumes of the 18/17 early editions, so the old discussion is set off below in its own section. The current discussion attempts to summarize and streamline what is known about all the volumes' chapter counts, dates and locations, pub dates, etc, with still a few question marks, leaving the tortured process of the earlier discussion behind (and below). Discussions resolving the few question marks, if and when that happens, appear in an "Update" section below the "Discourses History"
How tortured was that earlier process? Much of it consisted of resolving doubts about when, if ever, the 18/17-vol set was published, how many talks were in each volume, "Gita"-vs-"Geeta", etc. Regarding this last, which was only recently settled for the wiki by adopting "Geeta", there is still a tension because "Geeta" is correct, but "Gita" is still widely used in the west, even, for example, by Wikipedia in its article on Bhagavad Gita.
An interesting feature of the process involves Vol 7 of the 18/17-vol set. Bhagawati recently shared some scans of the info pages of that book, the first member of that set to definitively confirm its existence and its earliness. This same volume had made a more insubstantial appearance noted earlier as a hopeful sign. Such has been the nature of progress here in Geetaland. -- doofus-9 07:20, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
|Adhyayas||Number of talks, dates and location||Notes re anomalies, source contentions, etc|
|1&2||18 talks, Nov 29 1970 to Dec 7 1970, Ahmedabad||2 per day, confirmed by book|
|3||10 talks, Dec 28 1970 to Jan 6 1971, Bombay||1 per day, confirmed by book|
|4||18 talks, Jan 30 1971 to Feb 7 1971, Poona||2 per day, confirmed by book|
|5||11 talks, Mar 13 1971 to Mar 23 1971, Bombay||1 per day, confirmed by book|
|6||21 talks, May 2 1971 to May 12 1971, Ahmedabad||2 per day, confirmed by book|
|7||10 talks, May 22 1971 to May 31 1971, Bombay||1 per day, strong consensus, dates confirmed by Hindi series of talks with dates (source document)|
|8||11 talks, Nov 25 1971 to Dec 5 1971, Poona||1 per day, confirmed by book, see also Updates discussion below|
|9||13 talks, Mar 3 1972 to Mar 15 1972, Bombay||1 per day, confirmed by book|
|10||15 talks, May 6 1972 to May 20 1972, Bombay||1 per day, confirmed by book|
|11||12 talks, Jan 3 1973 to Jan 14 1973, Bombay||1 per day, confirmed by book|
|12||11 talks, Mar 12 1973 to Mar 22 1973, Bombay||1 per day, confirmed by book|
|13||12 talks, May 4 1973 to May 15 1973, Bombay||1 per day, confirmed by book, see also Updates discussion below|
|14||10 talks, Dec 1 1973 to Dec 10 1973, Bombay||1 per day, confirmed by book|
|15||7 talks, Mar 5 1974 to Mar 11 1974, Bombay||1 per day, confirmed by book|
|16||8 talks, Mar 30 1974 to Apr 6 1974, Poona||1 per day, confirmed by book|
|17||11 talks, May 21 1975 to May 31 1975, Poona||1 per day, confirmed by book|
|18||21 talks, Jul 21 1975 to Aug 10 1975, Poona||1 per day, confirmed by book|
This section concerns any changes made to the table above, if and when new info arrives. Reliability and relevance of the info will be assessed, etc.
Re Adhyaya 8
New info in the form of Dates and Places for Dhyan Ke Kamal (ध्यान के कमल) also has a snippet about Adhyaya 8's talks. It dovetails well with the existing but conflicted info for Adhyaya 8 and opens a grand new possibility that could resolve it. How this works is compelling enough to have adopted it in the table above, replacing the old "best guess". It works like this:
In the old discussion, it was written that two somewhat reliable sources -- and the only ones with dates, Nov 25 to Dec 1 1971 -- were agreeing on the fact of 7 talks and their dates, which worked out well with one a day but didn't add up to the 11 it should have, according to the most reliable sites, those offering audio. And 11 talks in 7 days didn't work very well either.
The new info for Dhyan Ke Kamal's dates and places added that its first nine dates were in Pune in the mornings of Nov 27 to Dec 5, and that "Chapter 8" of Geeta Darshan -- which can easily be inferred to be the whole of Adhyaya 8, "adhyaya" simply meaning "chapter" -- was in the evening. By extending the period to Dec 5, even though Dhyan Ke Kamal doesn't begin on Nov 25, it makes the count add up to 11, the right number, AND covers 11 days, making a one-per-day rhythm.
This is definitely cool enough to run with for now, so running is happening. -- doofus-9 07:32, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
- And has since been confirmed by the book -- 06:43, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
Re Adhyaya 12
Old info for Adhyaya 12 had agreement, as with Adhyaya 8 above, between two somewhat reliable sources -- and the only ones with dates, Mar 13-22 1973 -- but their package of 10 talks in ten days did not fit with audio offerings of 11 talks, and 11 talks in 10 days was not very appealing. The new source, while not infallible, at least was on the scene and documenting lots of things, so will go with his simple solution, Mar 12-22. Eleven days for eleven talks! Source is Laherubhai's memoir Blessed Moments with Osho.
Laheru has a whole chapter on Geeta Darshan and Shaktipat which focuses on Adhyaya 12. Some info extracted from that chapter is presented at Adhyaya 12's page. -- doofus-9 04:35, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
Dates for this Adhyaya confirmed 1977ed. Each chapter contains date.--DhyanAntar 11:07, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
Re Adhyaya 13
Talks for this Adhyaya were in the same boat as #12 above. Dates and Places info has finally come in the form of images from the book. See Talk:Geeta-Darshan, Adhyaya 13-14 (गीता-दर्शन, अध्याय १३-१४) -- doofus-9 06:43, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
Eight-volume set publishing history
Because of the earlier wholesale data cross-over and just plain misunderstanding regarding when volumes of the eight-volume set were published, it may be useful to have a table here just for that.
|Vol #, adhyayas||confirmed pub dates|
|Vol 1, adh 1, 2 & 3||1996, 2003, 2010|
|Vol 2, adh 4 & 5||1998, 2003, 2010|
|Vol 3, adh 6 & 7||1999, 2003, 2010|
|Vol 4, adh 8 & 9||1992, 2003, 2008|
|Vol 5, adh 10 & 11||1992, 2003, 2011|
|Vol 6, adh 12 & 13||1999, 2003, 2011|
|Vol 7, adh 14, 15 & 16||1993, 2003, 2010|
|Vol 8, adh 17 & 18||2003, 2010, 2015|
What, if anything, might we conclude from these pub dates?
1. The arrival of Vol 7 of the 17/18-vol set, properly dated and certifiably having only ten chapters, as it should, has put the final nail in the coffin of the idea that any of the 1971 or 1973 editions formerly attributed to any of the 8-vol set can have any merit whatsoever. So all the previous listings for any such dates will be re-assigned to the appropriate member of the 17/18-vol set, or to the dustbin, say in the cases of pub dates preceding talks dates. 1977 "reprints" should be eyed with some suspicion too.
2. The first definitive editions for any of the 8-vol set are scattered around the 90s, in such a way as to suggest that there was no unified edition of the whole set until 2003. The 90s editions all likely required a lot of re-editing, layout and design to conform with the needs of the 8-vol model and current marketing strategies. With all that done, it then became possible to put out the whole set in one go, such as is shown in the picture on the article page for the "2008-2011" edition.
3. The dates for Vol 8 are somewhat anomalous, but that fact may only represent incomplete information. -- doofus-9 08:11, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
Previous discussion and process
there has been some discussion about the correctness of early publication dates.
i have no access to the printed books and all dates are assumed and are based on what i found at Google books
Dates and chapter counts
Some pub dates are clearly wrong, eg pub 1971 for talks given in 1973, so i propose inserting talks dates as given by Doc X. Its track record is not perfect but it has proven reliable enough to be accepted provisionally, and much of it is verified by Neeten's Appendix. Below is a table comparing all aspects of Gita Darshan data supplied by various sources. "Sannyas Wiki" refers to this site prior to the changes made according to the conclusions of this study. Note that the wiki's Volumes are based on an eight-volume hard copy model, the two complete sets published by Rebel/OMI, while the others all use an 18-Volume model, based on the discourse series.
|Sannyas Wiki, based on two Rebel editions, 2003 and later||Tao Vision / Osho World / Oshoba (Ind audio sites)||Doc X: dates, places and chapter counts||Neeten: dates, places and chapter counts||Notes: (All the audio sites, Doc X and Neeten have an 18-vol system, which may derive from earlier hard copy, adhyaya loyalty or discourse structures.)|
|Vol 1: 28 chapters taking 749, 508 p in two editions, covering adhyayas 1, 2, 3||Vol 1&2:
|Vol 1&2: Nov 29 - Dec 7, 1970, 18 talks, Ahmedabad
Vol 3: Dec 28 - Jan 6, 1970, Bombay, 10 talks (clearly should be 70-71)
|Vol.1&2: Nov 29 - Dec 7, 1970, 18 talks, Ahmedabad
Vol.3: Dec 28 - Jan 6, 1970-71, 10 talks, Bombay
|All the 18-vol audio sites put Vol 1 & 2 together. Also Osho World has an article on GD, says start date Nov 29, 71, all have Ahmedabad. Doc X and Neeten both have 18 chapters in Vol 1-2, only nine days, likely two a day. Note that prior to Mar 4 2016, different dates were attributed to Neeten's account of Vol 1-2. That anomaly explained below. Chapter counts all agree.|
|Vol 2: 18 chapters, 434, 433 p in two editions, adhyayas 4 & 5||Vol 4:
|Vol 4: Jan 30 - Feb 7, 1971, Pune, 18 talks
Vol 5: Mar 13-23, 1971, Bombay, 11 talks
|Vol 4: Jan 30 - Feb 7, 1971, 18 talks, Poona
Vol 5: Mar 13-23, 1971, 11 talks, Bombay
|Major discrepancy between wiki and all other chapter counts. Adhyaya 5 seems to be missing. NB page counts for wiki Vol 2 more consistent with more chapters. Doc X again has 18 chapters in nine days for Vol 4, agreeing with Neeten. Unfortunately, there is a conflict of dates for Vol 4, published as fact in The Inward Revolution, a chapter based on a private interview said to be on Feb 4 in Mumbai.|
|Vol 3: 31 chapters, 454, 433 p in two editions, adhyayas 6 & 7||Vol 6:
|Vol 6: May 2-12, 1971, 11 talks, no place info
Vol 7: May 22-31, 1971, 10 talks, no place info
|Vol 6: May 2-12, 1971, 21 talks, Bombay
Vol 7: May 22-31, 1971, 10 talks, Bombay
|Vol 6 of Doc X has 11 rather than 21 chapters, fitting with dates (with one a day) but not adding up in totals unless again two a day. Other sites agree on 21, perhaps a Doc X typo.|
|Vol 4: 25 chapters, 360, 370 p in two editions, adhyayas 8 & 9||Vol 8:
|Vol 8: Nov 25 - Dec 1, Pune, 7 talks (1971 assumed)
Vol 9: Mar 3-15, 1972, Bombay
|Vol 8: Nov 25 - Dec 1, 1971, 7 talks, Poona
Vol 9: Mar 3-15, 1972, 13 talks, Bombay
|Lots of variation in chapter counts here: A small difference between wiki and audio sites but a troubling one in Vol 8 with Neeten and Doc X agreeing on 7 vs 11. 7 fits with agreed dates @ one a day but doesn't add up.|
|Vol 5: 27 chapters, 441, 452 p in two editions, adhyayas 10 & 11||Vol 10:
|Vol 10: May 6-20, 1972, Bombay, 15 talks
Vol 11: Jan 3-14, 1973, 12 talks, no place info
|Vol 10: May 6-20, 1972, 17 talks, Bombay
Jan 3-14, 1973, 12 talks, Bombay
|All agree here except Neeten. 15 talks fits the dates better than his 17 and adds up.|
|Vol 6: 23 chapters, 398, 408 p in two editions, adhyayas 12 & 13||Vol 12:
|Vol 12: Mar 13-22, 1973, 10 talks, no place info
Vol 13: May 4-13, 1973, Bombay, 10 talks
|Vol 12: Mar 13-22, 1973, 10 talks, Bombay
Vol 13: May 4-13, 1973, Bombay, 10 talks
|Another troubling agreement between Neeten and Doc X in that their 20 talks total fit the dates but don't add up or agree with audio sites and wiki.|
|Vol 7: 25 chapters, 416, 424 p in two editions, adhyayas 14, 15 & 16||Vol 14:
|Vol 14: Dec 1-10, 1973, Bombay, 10 talks
Vol 15: May 5-11, 1974, Bombay, 7 talks
Vol 16: Mar 30 - Apr 6, 1974, 8 talks, no place info, Pune assumed
|Vol 14: Dec 1-10, 1973, 10 talks, Bombay
Vol 15: Apr 5-11, 1974, 7 talks, Bombay
Vol 16: Mar 30 - Apr 6, 1974, 8 talks, Poona
|All are consistent here, except that the date info for Vol 15 in both Doc X and Neeten has it later than the Vol 16 dates, though different from each other. (Actually, Neeten's Vol 15 dates are not entirely after 16's, there is some overlap.) Their dates would put Vol 15 in Pune if either were accurate, but both say Bombay. Way simplest resolution of all this would be changing both to Mar and all problems disappear. (Note same days, 5-11, just different and likely wrong months.)|
|Vol 8: ? chapters, 537, 545 p in two editions, adhyayas 17 & 18||Vol 17:
|Vol 17: May 21-31, 1975, 11 talks, Pune assumed
Vol 18: Jul 21 - Aug 10, 1975, 21 talks, Pune assumed
|Neeten does not do data for after Mumbai era (except Vols 15 and 16 above)||Here, wiki chapter count obviously missing. Audio sites and Doc X dates and chapter counts are consistent, and date data agree with Sarlo and wiki and must be in Pune.|
|Total chapters = 177 + Vol 8 (would be 209 if Vol 8 = 32)||Total talks / chapters = 219||Total = 189 + Vol 9 (would be 202 if Vol 9 = 13)||Total = 182 + Vols 17 & 18 (would be 214 if 17 and 18 came to 32)||See below|
Dates and counts analysis
The gold standard is adding up to 219, the chapter count given by Videh and Chidananda. Thus, the Indian audio-based sites seem fairly solid, both in having complete data and having it add up. Wiki differs in three places: by missing Vol 8 (17 & 18) and different counts at Vol 2 (18 vs 18 +11 for 4 & 5) and Vol 4 (25 vs 11 + 13 for 8 & 9). Doc X differs by missing Vol 9 and different counts for Vols 12 & 13 (10 + 10 vs 11 + 12); Vol 6 (11 vs 21); and Vol 8 (7 vs 11). Neeten differs by missing Vols 17 and 18 and different counts at Vol 8 (7 vs 11); Vol 10 (17 vs 15); and Vols 12 & 13 (10 + 10 vs 11 + 12).
Interestingly, in most of the places where they differ from the audio sites, ie about chapter counts, Neeten and Doc X are in agreement with each other. A case could be made for trusting their count data more than the audio sites but it is not a great one and falls down imo on the following points: 1) Audio sites surveyed are three (or you could say even more), not just one, all supplying a real product subject to customer feedback. 2) They add up to 219. 3) In the instances of Doc X and Neeten's other individual disagreements (one each), the other aligns with the audio sites; specifically these are Vols 6 and 10, with the wiki also agreeing. Thus the audio sites are consistent in remaining aligned with a consensus of other "serious" suppliers of info.
- Recently, e-book versions of the first seven Volumes (in the 8-vol model) have come to light, with pub dates in the 90s. Every volume agrees completely with the audio info regarding chapter counts for each adhyaya, covering 16 of them in those seven vols. It now seems fairly safe to accept those counts without reservation, making Neeten and Doc X wrong in the cases where they differ. Additionally, these e-books clearly show that the organization of the whole structure was and is around the adhyayas, with each Vol X explicitly having sections labelled Adhyaya X1 and Adhyaya X2, eg Vol 4 treats Adhyayas 8 and 9. -- doofus-9 06:22, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
About dates, Neeten and Doc X agree throughout, except for Doc X's wrong year for Vol 3, Vol 15 and Vol 1-2. In the comical case of Vol 15, it looks like they are both wrong, in parallel ways, but no worries: with an easy and sensible alternative to substitute, we are not adrift.
In the much more complicated case of Vol 1-2, it could be said that we have four sources to sort out: Osho World also happens to weigh in, although with a wrong year. And since Neeten's OSB, especially the Appendix section, has so much raw, unprocessed data, there is a large potential for conflicts. And so it has happened with GD. He has two entries for Vol 1-2, one with the other Hindi books and one hidden among the English books, since Vol 1-2 have been translated. Prior to Mar 4 2016 , the English entry had not been noticed. The formerly problematic Hindi entry has Vol 1-2 running from Nov 19 - Dec ?, the English from Nov 29 - Dec 7. It seems sensible to call this development an agreement and let Nov 19 - Dec ? and the conflict be relegated to the periphery.
For Vol 4, we await resolution of the sticky problem of Osho giving a private interview in Mumbai on the same day as two GD discourses in Pune. Perhaps the other book got the place or date wrong.
Before leaving the question of dates, there is a late entrant in the game, The Sound of Running Water. That book reportedly has date data for adhyayas 16-18, as follows: Adhyaya 16 Apr 1-11, 1974, Adhyaya 17 May 21 - Jun 1, 1975 and Adhyaya 18 Jun 21 - Jul 1, 1975. As these dates haven't much in common with the other sources, they shall be just noted for now.
- Decent-res images of various Timeline-type pages from TSoRW have now turned up and a two-year discourse timeline shows that the dates given above are inaccurate or wrong. The image itself does not precisely give dates, just fits talks into boxes running from the 1st - 10th, 11th - 20th and 21st - 30th/31st of each month. Thus, the Adhyaya 16 and 17 dates are approximately right but 18 is just plain wrong, the image showing it ending Aug 10 1975, with its start date unclear (the period from Jul 11 to Aug 10 is shown as shared in an unspecified way with Piv Piv Laagi Pyas (पिव पिव लागी प्यास)).
- TSoRW is also conceptually wrong in using these ten-day boxes for the earliest Pune One talks, since their lengths were somewhat random. Only after a few months did the regularity suggested there become the case. -- doofus-9 03:11, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
For locations, agreement is complete, except for where it is missing. -- updated doofus-9 08:07, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
Dates: present best guess!
With these remarks and caveats:
- Bhag 2 - adhyaya 4: 18 talks, 2 per day
- Jan 30 - Feb 7 1971, Pune
- Beware of conflict with a Mumbai interview on Feb 4 in The Inward Revolution, may invalidate Gita's dates, or the reverse.
- Bhag 2 - adhyaya 5: 11 talks, 1 per day
- Mar 13-23, 1971 in Mumbai, unknown times of day
- Bhag 4 - adhyaya 8: 11 talks, 1.28 per day
- Nov 25 - Dec 1, 1971 in Pune. Unknown times of day and dates within range.
- Date range provisionally assumed correct, but sources not all consistent.
- 11 talks assumed correct (in conflict with date suppliers, who agree with each other but are still likely wrong).
- Bhag 4 - adhyaya 9: 13 talks, one per day
- Mar 3-15, 1972, Mumbai, likely accurate.
- Mar '72 has an intrusion by The Inward Revolution as well, but its one-a-day in Mumbai pattern does not create a conflict like in Bhag 2.
- Bhag 6 - adhyaya 12: 11 talks probably in Mumbai
- conflict too great to assign dates, but a decent chance all Mar 1973.
- Bhag 6 - adhyaya 13, 12 talks likely in Mumbai
- conflict too great to assign dates, but a decent chance all May 1973.
Discussion re volume / adhyaya models
It is mentioned "while the others all use an 18-Volume model". Thing is, there are in fact 17 volumes, the first is called "Vol 1 & 2". I assume this refers to the subject of those talks, which is "on adhyayas 1 & 2". Could it be that some editor with a systematic personality has changed that into "Volumes"? Would it not be more basic to say that the others use the adhyaya-model? I think using that designation, also in the naming of the parts, would make this Gita Darshan story more clear and simple. And perhaps it would do more honor to the lecture-content, compared with a designation based on the book-volumes, they seem arbitrary.
While there might be a gain in clarity in using "adhyaya" for our terminology, especially since the 8-vol and 18-vol models will both refer to Vol X etc, that term would not have a basis in other sources. Doc X and Neeten both say Vol. as do the audio sites. Looks like a lot of work for little gain, as well as not having that source basis.
If you are thinking of using "adhyaya" just for our little chats here, that would work fine, as it would clear out ambiguities in which vol-system we are referring to. -- doofus-9 (talk) 18:42, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
One question: is my theory that Osho's talks are centered respectively on Adhyaya 1&2, on -3, on -4 etc, correct? The English translations suggests that to be the case. Both Gita Darshan and Gita Darshan, Vol 2 follow the exact order of Adhyayas. Chapters are all called like this:
Discourse 1 Adhyaya 1 (Chapter 1) Discourse 2 Adhyaya 1 (Chapter 1) ... Discourse 5 Adhyaya 1 (Chapter 1) Adhyaya 2 (Chapter 2) Discourse 6 Adhyaya 2 (Chapter 2) ... etc
(Discourse 5 is the only one about sutras from 2 different Adhyayas, the rest all from one Adhyaya.) At least in these two books, the discourses follow the exact order of the Gita-shlokas (which Osho calls sutras). They are quoted and numbered explicitly, interspersed with questions and answers.
As the 8 volume system of the original Hindi books are arbitrary in lumping discourses and not following Osho's original lecture-sets, I feel the 18-volume system, or better 17, allowing for 1&2 together, also following 17 sets of talks, is the best basis for naming the lectures.
Doc X: Vol 4: Jan 30 - Feb 7, 1971, Pune, 18 talks: every odd-numbered talk has bird-sounds, sparrows and crows, and every even-numbered talk has no bird sounds, suggesting they were mornings and evenings respectively. --Sugit (talk) 08:49, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
A great new source, the birds! In the case of Vol 4 (adhyaya 4), it is not so difficult, since 18 talks in nine days is fairly straightforward to work out. Perhaps the birds can figure out other more complicated cases. -- doofus-9 (talk) 18:42, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
Note: Major discrepancy between wiki and all other chapter counts. Adhyaya 5 seems to be missing. It seems also Adhyaya 4 is missing in Osho Timeline 1971.
Sannyas Wiki, based on two Rebel editions: Vol 4: 25 chapters, 360, 370 p in two editions, adhyayas 8 & 9. These are missing in the date-line.
In the same way, wiki's Vol 6 is missing from the date-line.
Ah yes, I see, these adhyayas all have uncertain dates (can't e.g. be one each day). But the first and last have a clear date.
And even the whole adhyaya could be entered as uncertain dates in a range, with the caveat that adhyaya 8 is uncertain also in chapter count. (Well, a little uncertain. I have already taken the position that 8 is eleven talks in seven days (dates from Doc X and Neeten, count from all others). Doesn't fit very well though, so that's why not entered. Perhaps the birds will show something like seven mornings and four evenings. Birds might also resolve adhyayas 12 and 13, which have similar issues. -- doofus-9 (talk) 18:42, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
Shailendra stated about other editions of that series (not 8 vols):
"Krishna's Geeta has 18 chapters, called ADHYAY. Audios are labelled accordingly. But books are published in many different ways. This Longest Series was spread over several years, in Bombay, Ahmedabad & Poona. Naturally, books were published from time to time. Finally compiled in 8 volumes during poona-2 phase."
--DhyanAntar 04:24, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
Early Edition News!
While trying to run down info on Jeevan Jagruti Kendra (more on that over there) i came across an early edition of Gita Darshan. It was for sale (still) at 1973 prices at Jain Gyan Bhandar (Jain Wisdom / Knowledge Repository). It was calling itself Gita Darshan (7), presumably Vol 7, pub date 1973, 305 pages, being offered for Rs 12.
Being published in 1973, and by JJK, it cannot be Vol 7 of the eight-vol set, so this shows clearly the first editions were in the 17/18-vol model, though 305 pages is quite a lot for only ten talks. -- doofus-9 05:40, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
I would say that a list of publications in Two Hundred Two, p.203, indicates on existing vol 4, 5 and 6 published before May 1974 by Jeevan Jagriti Kendra.--DhyanAntar 16:54, 1 January 2019 (UTC)