Talk:Ghoonghat Ke Pat Khol (घूंघट के पट खोल) (compilation)
The Devanagari description of the book was copied from the one for Suno Bhai Sadho (सुनो भई साधो), when it was believed that these four chapters were just four sequential chapters taken from that book. Since that is now evidently not the case, it may be inappropriate to have Suno's description stand in for Ghoonghat as well. But for now they can stay, because who knows?
As mentioned on the article page, the title of this small collection of commentaries on the work of Kabir comes from one of his bhajans. The bhajan is as follows, along with a simple translation, gathered from a blog. A discussion follows.
Ghoonghat ke pat khol re,
|
Do away with your veil (illusion)
|
This is not the place to discuss this guy's rendering of Kabir, just to share the context and general drift, which is about lifting off one's veil of illusion. The bhajan was given a modern revival by the 1950 Bollywood flick Jogan, which was a big hit, as was the singing of this bhajan by Geeta Dutt. Osho would surely have heard her sing this bhajan, though it is not known to have been among his record collection.
The blog's author also cites Prem Joshua, as saying about this bhajan and Meera: "I fell in love with the words of Meera and Kabir after I got to understand their deeper meaning. I really felt like putting that onto contemporary music. My knowledge of Hindi is limited, but I got some really good English translations of their work which helped me understand their poetry . Kabir is a Great Philosophy. I love the lines 'Ghoongat Ke Pat Khol'. We brought two great songs to our Album; one 'Aissi laagi Lagan' by Meera and the second 'Ghoongat Ke Pat Khol' by Kabir." [That album is probably "Luminous Secrets".]
Second item is the stray last word in the first line, after घूंघट के पट खोल. The whole first line is almost everywhere rendered as घूंघट के पट खोल रे, as it is in the transliterated version above. Why it was left out of Osho's title, what meaning it adds, and why it has re-appeared in the Gujarati translation of Ghoonghat are not known and shall have to remain a mystery for now.
Third item, and likely the main event for some folks, is: What are the actual source discourses for these four chapters? I thought i found it when i found a Hindi blog with this book as its subject, and a nice chunk of discourse, after which, "compiled from first discourse, घाट घाट में वह साईं रमता, Nov 17, 1974".
This "first discourse" source is indeed the same title as given below for chapter 1, but then i concluded that the other chapters were also from Suno Bhai Sadho, following it. This has now been proven wrong.
The first problem we encounter is that Suno's chapter titles do not align with Ghoonghat's. Suno's ch 7 is called घूंघट के पट खोल रे, complete with the "missing" रे, and it was given on Nov 17, 1974, so it's hard to argue with that, just a title change, but what about the others? Suno's ch 10 has almost the same title as Ghoonghat's ch 2, with one word changed, from मन मस्त हुआ तब क्यों बोले to मन मस्त हुआ फिर क्यों बोले. Will that do? And what about the out-of-orderness?
It may be the same talk, or similar enough, but the next chapter throws it all out the window. Ch 3, मन रे जागत रहिए भाई, turns out to be ch 4 of Kahai_Kabir_Diwana_(कहै_कबीर_दीवाना). So this fine little book is unequivocally a compilation.
Ch 4 was not to be found anywhere in the wiki, which may just be a kind of incompleteness, but ... Those words, "भीजै दास कबीर", are to be found on the net, not as a chapter title for Osho's anything, but as the last three words of a Kabir doha, which Osho does comment on, it turns out, in what is called ... are you ready for this? ... Suno Bhai Sadho, discourse #20.
Now Suno has, in its original form, only ten talks. As the years went on, it followed the publishing pattern of all of Osho's Kabir books and got married to another one, Kasturi Kundal Basai (कस्तूरी कुंडल बसै). That book's ten talks were added to Suno's, so its ch 10 became Suno's ch 20. So at this point, that looks like the likeliest bet for Ghoonghat's ch 4, with another re-titling.
- Since the above was written, Shailendra, who had sent the Ghoonghat scans, has passed on some more information about this book which has cleared up some misconceptions, in an interesting way. He says ch #4 is right but ch #3 is not from Kahai Kabir, but the greater Suno #17, or Kasturi #7, which has, it turns out, the same title.
- He says that the title in Kahai Kabir is natural and correct, as it is the first line of the song, while the one in Kasturi is an editor's mistake. But for all that, the one in Kasturi is the one reproduced in Ghoonghat, so that makes Ghoonghat consist of Suno #7, 10, 17 and 20, and perhaps Suno's description copied as it is, is not so inappropriate.
- And he wrote about the missing "रे" in the title that it is in this context a loving way of saying "Hey man, listen" but its presence or absence doesn't change the meaning of the main message, to lift off the veil. -- doofus-9 06:35, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
Lastly, we have our old friend, transliteration variations. In this case, it is not difficult to choose: questions only arise about ghoonghat-vs-ghunghat. The "u" and the "oo" are, in practical terms, interchangeable, though they are not technically supposed to represent the same Devanagari letters / diacritics. But okay. In practical terms, "ghoonghat" is more "correct", while it seems to be "ghunghat" in most places. The easy part is that searching for one does not miss the other, so we can go with correctness this time.
Enough for today? -- doofus-9 05:57, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
TOC:
- 1. घाट घाट में वह साईं रमता . . . . . . 1 - 26
- 2. मन मस्त हुआ तब क्यों बोले . . . .27 - 55
- 3. मन रे जागत रहिए भाई . . . . . . . 57 - 77
- 4. भीजै दास कबीर . . . . . . . . . . . .79 - 100
Ghoonghat belongs to a small group of smaller Hindi compilations published on an experimental basis in 1988 by Rebel apparently to give potential new readers a taste of Osho in relatively inexpensive books. A striking feature of some of these books was using the same picture of Osho on the cover. More on this at Talk:Mahaveer-Vani (महावीर-वाणी) (mini-compilation).
Also Shailendra added that: ch.3 of Ghoonghat published in Kasturi Kundal Basai as ch.7, and ch.4 - as ch.10.
About dates he mentioned:
- ch.1: 17 Nov. 1974
- ch.2: 20 Nov. 1974
- ch.3: 17 Mar. 1975
- ch.4: 20 Mar. 1975
--DhyanAntar 06:34, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
