Talk:Hindi series of talks with dates (source document)
Regarding the source of the pdf: it has come to the wiki via Anuragi, who has ascertained that its information was originally gathered by Jeevan Jagriti Kendra. That it came to include Pune One Hindi discourses and the two Hindi series from the World Tour era indicates updating by someone else but the core early parts can be ascribed to JJK.
Titles of items in the list can be whole series or, at times, single discourses, with date ranges (from X to Y) and number of discourses. Titles are transliterated and sometimes shortened for convenience, but it is usually fairly clear what is being referenced. New or unfamiliar titles (in their time slots) are mostly single talks, equivalent to discourse titles or themes. As often as not, they are alt-titles for already known events.
The pdf is English-oriented, in that titles are transliterated (and occasionally translated) and column headings are in English. It is largely in chronological order and has 193 items, ranging from 1965's Dhyan-Sutra (ध्यान-सूत्र) to 1986's Phir Amrit Ki Boond Padi (फिर अमरित की बूंद पड़ी) (5 talks). The column header for "items" is actually "Page", suggesting that somewhere at one time there was a page for each of these items, a whole vast level of detail that may turn up some day.
Differences from current wisdom
This section is divided into three subsections. The first lists the apparent errors of the pdf. As far as we in the wiki can tell, the preponderance of other sources makes it quite unlikely that the pdf's info is correct in these few cases. They are referenced by the pdf's item number.
The next subsection lists unresolved questions, while the third has a few instances of where the pdf's info has resolved some previously murky matters. Not listed here are the many simple agreements and the more-than-a-few instances of new info incorporated into the wiki thanks to this pdf.
|Item||Error details, comments|
|17||"Prabhu Mandir Ke" in the pdf, dated "30.10.68-03.11.68, 6 talks". 31/10 to 3/11 of that year are the dates of a camp in Nargol which was first said to be Prabhu Mandir Ke Dwar Par (प्रभु मंदिर के द्वार पर) but later was switched to Prabhu Ki Pagdandiyan (प्रभु की पगडंडियां). The collective evidence for Pagdandian on those dates is still stronger and Prabhu Mandir does have another set of dates which work well, so no change is contemplated but the conflation of these two series has been impressive.|
|33||"Mein Mrityu Sikhata Hun" in the pdf, dated "04.11.68-06.08.70, 15 talks". There are two errors in the first date. One is a simple typo, 68 instead of 69, the other more serious. 04.11.69 is indeed the date of ch 1 of Main Mrityu Sikhata Hun (मैं मृत्यु सिखाता हूं), but that book's chapters do not come completely in chrono order in late editions: Ch 3-9 are from a camp which preceded ch 1 by a week or so. Early HIndi editions and all English editions are in chrono order.|
|36||"Karuna Aur Kranti" in the pdf, dated "24.11.69-29.11.69, 5+1 talks". "5" means main 5 talks given in Gowalia Tank Maidan, Bombay. "1" may mean an additional talk on 29 Nov in another place, Birla Kreeda Kendra. However, one further talk on 25 Nov in Birla Kreeda Kendra is not listed here, possibly indicating only an incomplete audio collection. Date range is correct.|
|37||"Jeevan Hi Hai Prabhu" in the pdf, dated "09.12.69-12.12.69, 4 talks". Date range is correct but there are seven talks. Shortfall possibly indicates only an incomplete audio collection.|
|41||"Satya Ki Khoj" in the pdf, dated "16.01.70-19.01.70, 4 talks". Not so much an error as a resuscitation of a confusing duplicate title. It seems likely that this series was once known as Satya Ki Khoj but the name was changed eventually to Prem Darshan (प्रेम दर्शन) to avoid confusion with another series with a prior and more compelling claim to the title.|
|50||"Jin Khoja Tin Paiyan" in the pdf, dated "02.05.70-12.07.70, 18 talks". Date range is correct but there are nineteen talks. Shortfall possibly indicates only an incomplete audio collection. Intriguingly, Jagdish details only eighteen talks as well, but running only to 11.07. Another column here, "Tape II", has a one which could be construed as the nineteenth, but that col doesn't always signify an additional tape. Could also just be some kind of counting error.|
|65||"Yog: Naye Aayam" in the pdf, dated "17.10.70-20.10.70, 4 talks". Date range is correct but there are six talks. Shortfall possibly indicates only an incomplete audio collection. And OshoWorld has all 6 audios.|
|69||"Geeta Darshan Ch 3" (Ch here means Adhyaya) in the pdf, dated "29.12.70-06.01.71, 10 talks". First edition of Geeta-Darshan, Adhyaya 3 (गीता-दर्शन, अध्याय ३) and other sources give 28 Dec 1970 - 6 Jan 1971, 10 talks (in 12 chapters in 1977 ed.)|
|Item||Unresolved details, open questions, comments|
|18||"Jeevan Kya Hai" in the pdf, dated "11.11.68-11.11.68, 1 talk". Unresolved by this infobit is to what discourse it actually applies. |
1. We have a book called Jeevan Kya Hai? (जीवन क्या है?) about which nothing is known, published by Hind in 2005. If this note applies to that book (not very likely) the question would still arise as to which chapter, and which discourse elsewhere might be the source of that.
2. There are a few cases of chapters of other books called Jeevan Kya Hai but the ones based on talks have known other dates. They are:
a) Upasana Ke Kshan (उपासना के क्षण) ch 4, on 11 Apr 1968
b) Mati Kahai Kumhar Sun (माटी कहै कुम्हार सूं) ch 5, on 11 Dec 1970
c) Jeevan Kranti Ke Sutra (जीवन क्रांति के सूत्र) ch 1, on 30 May 1969
d) Mitti Ke Diye (मिट्टी के दीये) ch 46. Mitti is a special case, a collection of written lecture notes, for talks given at unknown times. Even if it corresponds to this pdf entry, a few questions are still hanging.
e) Krantibeej (क्रांतिबीज) ch 113 is an even more special case, the title of a Letter written on 14 Sep 1962.
More can give second part of title added in Rabia Osho books (source document) list, which says "Jeevan Kya Hai? Mrityu Kya Hai?, 1 lecture in Bombay, 11 Nov 1968".
|29||"Informal Talks" in the pdf, dated, "18.08.69-20.08.69, 6 talks". There are currently six talks in the Timeline on these dates and they are scattered among four different series, so it appears that the talks are not a cohesive series.|
|30||"Intimate & Informal talks", dated 14.09.69-15.09.69, 3 talks". It can be 3 talks of Sambodhi Ke Kshan (सम्बोधि के क्षण), but the book indicates that all 3 on 14 Sep 1969, Bombay. Still unresolved is this detail: Three talks all on 14 Sep or split among 14 and 15?|
|32||"Jeevan Rahasya", dated 02.10.69-03.10.69, 3 talks". Jagdish also has three talks of Jeevan Rahasya around this time, but not exactly the same. He has two talks on 03.10 and one on 27.09, all three confirmed by book edition (1977). It remains to be seen how the third will play out. Perhaps this is typo due incorrect date (2 Oct 1969) of ch.1 of 1977 book edition of Jeevan Rahasya?, where ch.1 is most part of ch.24 of Mahaveer: Meri Drishti Mein (महावीर : मेरी दृष्टि में), event on 1 Oct.|
|42||"Shiksha", dated 17.01.70-, 3 talks". This is more of a mystery than "unresolved". It is not known to what series this one-word title refers, the date range is incomplete, having only a start date, and it mentions missing #1-3. One tempting possibility is Samyak Shiksha (सम्यक शिक्षा), also formerly known as Shiksha Aur Dharm (शिक्षा और धर्म). Its 4th discourse was given on 18.01.70, one day off, and the only unknown talks are the 1st and 9th, but "Shiksha" and "4th" fit. Maybe related with Shiksha Mein Kranti (शिक्षा में क्रांति)? Or some completely unheard-of series? The Appendix section of Neeten's Osho Source Book mentions three talks in Bhavnagar on 17-19 Jan for a series called "Siksha", so we have a "confirmation" but to what end? Where to go with that info?|
Other source, Osho Discourse Hindi List with dates (source document), can help, entry 144 is Shiksha Kya Hai Marg? ("शिक्षा क्या है मार्ग?"), 17-19 Jan (1970 - the year was not stated but title listed among other 1970s talks), 3 talks. This list confirms many dates of current source doc.
|49||"Samajwad Se Savdhan" in the pdf, dated "13.04.70-17.04.70, 5+1 talks". Here, the dates are correct but Samajvad Se Savdhan (समाजवाद से सावधान) has five discourses only, not six. Thus the "+1" is a bit of a mystery, with the "+" clearly performing a different function than in the example of Item 43 below. Most likely it can be ch.5 or 7 of Main Kaun Hun? (मैं कौन हूं?) (discourses), both were given during period of SSS.|
|52||2 talks "Santati Niyaman" and "Child Education" in the pdf, dated "22.05.70-26.05.70". Three unresolved matters / mysteries:
|53||2 talks "Informal Talk" and "Satya Ki Khoj" in the pdf, dated "22.05.70-24.05.70". Three unresolved matters / mysteries are similar to those for 52:|
|54||2 talks "Brahmacharya" and "Press Conference" in the pdf, dated "20.06.70-18.07.70". Again, similar to 52 and 53, no significant "Aha!" match-ups. The first date and theme appeared Panth Prem Ko Atpato ~ 01 event. The third question, regarding two talks sharing a date range, applies as always but the circumstances here at least suggest a titled theme should go with the known intimate venue, CCI Chambers. One small indication in favour of first title <==> first date.|
|70||1 talk "Dhyan Ek Vaigyanik Drishti" in the pdf, dated "10.01.71-10.01.71". This talk is known as Hasiba Kheliba Dhariba Dhyanam (हसिबा खेलिबा धरिबा ध्यानम्) ch 2 but different sources have different dates, same venue. Currently using 18 Jan but only provisionally, may eventually go with this one. See Hasiba's talk page.|
|"17+2" talks "Adhyatma Upanishad" in the pdf, dated "13.10.72-21.10.72" and 17 talks "Samadhi Ke Sapt Dwar", dated "09.02.73-17.02.73". May be a mystery or more likely a minor error: Both series have 17 discourses per se, so the issue is, what is this "+2" for Adhyatma? While the significance of the "+2" is nowhere spelled out, it likely refers to the two extra small audios of meditation instruction which are not included in books (hard-copy or audio) but on offer in OW's free audio section, with Sapt Dwar. See Sapt Dwar's talk page for details. Thus, if it were "17+2" under Sapt Dwar's entry, it would look and feel right, and illustrate one of the functions of the "+" in this pdf.|
|Item||Resolved by the pdf, comments|
|8||"Bhavishya Ki Yojana" in the pdf, dated "23.12.67-23.12.67, 1 talk". Osho writes in Letter written on 16 Dec 1967 that he was going to arrive to Lonavala for a workers camp 24-25 Dec 1967 in the evening of 23 Dec 1967. This is surely the first evening talk of Anant Ki Pukar (अनंत की पुकार), which camp started the next day. This resolves a conflicting entry in Neeten's Osho Source Book which says "Bhaivishya Ki Yojna. 23.12.1969am. Lonavala." To have an additional talk on the 23rd in 1967 was tempting, with only the year wrong; however, Osho's letter nixes that, and the pdf's entry here puts the final nail in the coffin of Dec 23 1969, never mind that he was on that day in 1969 in Ahmedabad. Both these possibilities had been entertained in Anant's Talk page.|
|16||"Satya Ki Khoj, 2.10.68-2.10.68, 1 talk" - this Main Kaun Hun (discourses) ~ 05, where words "satya ki khoj" meet 14 times !|
|19||"Dekh Kabira Roya" in the pdf, dated "02.12.68-05.12.68, 6 talks". The relevant component of Dekh, Aswikriti Mein Utha Haath (अस्वीकृति में उठा हाथ). According to last researches these dates looks reliable enough in comparing with other sources. See Aswikriti's talk page for a more detailed consideration.|
|28||3 talks "Aj Ki Rajneeti", "Sex Differences" and "Bharat Kis Aur" in the pdf, dated "15.08.69-17.08.69". First event is Swarn Pakhi Tha Jo Kabhi ~ 07 and third is Swarn Pakhi Tha Jo Kabhi ~ 08, both dates confirmed by other source. So it is ok, title and dates match. About "Sex Differences" this is theme of 4th talk of Nari Aur Kranti (नारी और क्रान्ति) (4 talks) and Oshoganga gave the same date, so it is ok here too.|
|39||Items 39 and 40 overlap a lot, and with item 38 as well. 39 lists three titles, Manushya Ek Ajayabghar, Naye Manushya Ki... and Shiksha Main Kranti [sic], as having taken place in 23-25.12.69. Item 38 is an agreement on five talks for Bharat Ke Jalte Prashna (भारत के जलते प्रश्न) in the same 23-26.12.69.
|43||"Samadhi Ke Dwar Par" in the pdf, dated "21.02.70-24.02.70, 4+2 talks". Here we can learn one of the possible uses of this "+" sign, seen in the number of discourses occasionally. SKDP has six talks in audio, all given in one series, but mysteriously separated as parts of two series, four in one and two in the other, before "re-uniting" as SKDP.|
|44||"Informal Talk with Indust" in the pdf dated "5.03.70-5.03.70, 1 talk". It looks as Dekh Kabira Roya ~ 12 on the same date.|
|62||2 talks "Nav-Sannyas" and "Nav Sannyas Kya Hai" in the pdf, dated "28.09.70-06.12.70". Regarding the question of two talks sharing a date range, circumstances here again support the first title <==> first date thesis. Themes are of course very similar and perhaps to make distinctions is risky but one could say that the first group taking sannyas in Manali went a long way from home to participate and were less likely to need a talk called "What is Neo-Sannyas" than a group in Ahmedabad. (The second date was during the first "Geeta Darshan" series in Ahmedabad. It can be additional talk during GD series.)
|94||"Geeta Darshan Ch 12" (Ch here means Adhyaya) in the pdf, dated "12.03.73-22.03.73, 10 talks". Date range is correct but there are eleven talks. 11th talks seems stated in "Tape II" column.|