Talk:Hindi series of talks with dates (source document)

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General

Regarding the source of the pdf: it has come to the wiki via Anuragi, to whom it was offered by a Gujarati friend. But there the source tracing ends; the friend did not create it and cannot remember how and when it came into his possession.

Titles of items in the list can be whole series or, at times, single discourses, with date ranges (from X to Y) and number of discourses. Titles are transliterated and sometimes shortened for convenience, but it is usually fairly clear what is being referenced. New or unfamiliar titles (in their time slots) are mostly single talks, equivalent to discourse titles or themes. As often as not, they are alt-titles for already known events.

The pdf is English-oriented, in that titles are transliterated (and occasionally translated) and column headings are in English. It is largely in chronological order and has 193 items, ranging from 1965's Dhyan-Sutra (ध्यान-सूत्र) to 1986's Phir Amrit Ki Boond Padi (फिर अमरित की बूंद पड़ी) (5 talks). The column header for "items" is actually "Page", suggesting that somewhere at one time there was a page for each of these items, a whole vast level of detail that may turn up some day.

Differences from current wisdom

This section is divided into three subsections. The first lists the apparent errors of the pdf. As far as we in the wiki can tell, the preponderance of other sources makes it quite unlikely that the pdf's info is correct in these few cases. They are referenced by the pdf's item number.

The next subsection lists unresolved questions, while the third has a few instances of where the pdf's info has resolved some previously murky matters. Not listed here are the many simple agreements and the more-than-a-few instances of new info incorporated into the wiki thanks to this pdf.

Item Error details, comments
17 "Prabhu Mandir Ke" in the pdf says, "30.10.68-03.11.68, 6 talks". 31/10 to 3/11 of that year are the dates of a camp in Nargol which was first said to be Prabhu Mandir Ke Dwar Par (प्रभु मंदिर के द्वार पर) but later was switched to Prabhu Ki Pagdandiyan (प्रभु की पगडंडियां). The collective evidence for Pagdandian on those dates is still stronger and Prabhu Mandir does have another set of dates which work well, so no change is contemplated but the conflation of these two series has been impressive.
33 "Mein Mrityu Sikhata Hun" in the pdf says, "04.11.68-06.08.70, 15 talks". There are two errors in the first date. One is a simple typo, 68 instead of 69, the other more serious. 04.11.69 is indeed the date of ch 1 of Main Mrityu Sikhata Hun (मैं मृत्यु सिखाता हूं), but that book's chapters do not come completely in chrono order: Ch 3-9 are from a camp which preceded ch 1 by a week or so.
36 "Karuna Aur Kranti" in the pdf says, "24.11.69-29.11.69, 5+1 talks". "5" means main 5 talks given in Gowalia Tank Maidan, Bombay. "1" may mean an additional talk on 29 Nov in another place, Birla Kreeda Kendra. However, one further talk on 25 Nov in Birla Kreeda Kendra is not listed here, possibly indicating only an incomplete audio collection. Date range is correct.
37 "Jeevan Hi Hai Prabhu" in the pdf says, "09.12.69-12.12.69, 4 talks". Date range is correct but there are seven talks. Shortfall possibly indicates only an incomplete audio collection.
69 "Geeta Darshan Ch 3" (Ch here means Adhyaya) in the pdf says, "29.12.70-06.01.71, 10 talks". First edition of Geeta-Darshan, Adhyaya 3 (गीता-दर्शन, अध्याय ३) and other sources give 28 Dec 1970 - 6 Jan 1971, 10 talks (in 12 chapters in 1977 ed.)
Item Unresolved details, open questions, comments
8 "Bhavishya Ki Yojana" in the pdf says, "23.12.67-23.12.67, 1 talk". Letter written on 16 Dec 1967 tells that Osho was going to arrive to Lonavala for workers camp 24-25 Dec 1967 in the evening of 23 Dec 1967. It can be first evening talk of Anant Ki Pukar (अनंत की पुकार) (camp started on next day). Hovewer Neeten says "Bhaivishya Ki Yojna. 23.12.1969am. Lonavala." It looks incorrect Osho was in the place in the evening and year is incorrect too: he was on that day in 1969 in Ahmedabad.
18 "Jeevan Kya Hai" in the pdf says, "11.11.68-11.11.68, 1 talk". Unresolved by this infobit is to what discourse it actually applies.
  1. We have a book called Jeevan Kya Hai? (जीवन क्या है?) about which nothing is known, published by Hind in 2005. If this note applies to that book (not very likely) the question would still arise as to which chapter, and which discourse elsewhere might be the source of that.
  2. There are a few cases of chapters of other books called Jeevan Kya Hai but the ones based on talks have known other dates. They are:
    a) Upasana Ke Kshan (उपासना के क्षण) ch 4, on 11 Apr 1968
    b) Mati Kahai Kumhar Sun (माटी कहै कुम्हार सूं) ch 5, on 11 Dec 1970
    c) Jeevan Kranti Ke Sutra (जीवन क्रांति के सूत्र) ch 1, on 30 May 1969
    d) Mitti Ke Diye (मिट्टी के दीये) ch 46. Mitti is a special case, a collection of written lecture notes, for talks given at unknown times. Even if it corresponds to this pdf entry, a few questions are still hanging.
    e) Krantibeej (क्रांतिबीज) ch 113 is an even more special case, the title of a Letter written on 14 Sep 1962.
19 "Dekh Kabira Roya" in the pdf says, "02.12.68-05.12.68, 6 talks". This one is unresolved in a different way, perhaps half-way between erroneous and unresolved, perhaps it could be called "inconclusive". The relevant component of Dekh, Aswikriti Mein Utha Haath (अस्वीकृति में उठा हाथ), has partial info from many sources, each conflicting with the others in small or large ways, with no compelling synthesis that can be cobbled together. The pdf's view also has its conflicts but does point to a possible synthesis, so it may help with a movement in that direction. See Aswikriti's talk page for a more detailed consideration.
29 "Informal Talks" in the pdf says, "18.08.69-20.08.69, 6 talks". There are currently five talks in the Timeline on these dates. It is not clear whether all five are part of the six, but there must be at least one more title to be found. The five talks are scattered among four different series, so it appears that the talks are not a cohesive series. Three of the talks are on the 18th, in two cities, so that day is stretched to its limit, lots of room on the 19th and 20th.
30 "Intimate & Informal talks" says, 14.09.69-15.09.69, 3 talks". These three talks help resolve a possible conflict between sources for Mahaveer: Meri Drishti Mein (महावीर : मेरी दृष्टि में) and Sambodhi Ke Kshan (सम्बोधि के क्षण). Still unresolved is this detail: Three talks all on 14 Sep (for Kshan) or split among 14 and 15?
32 "Jeevan Rahasya" says, 02.10.69-03.10.69, 3 talks". Jagdish also has three talks of Jeevan Rahasya around this time, but not exactly the same. He has two talks on 03.10 and one on 27.09. Each partially confirms the other, ie two of the three dates agree. It remains to be seen how the third will play out.
Item Resolved by the pdf, comments
8 "Bhavishya Ki Yojana" in the pdf says, "23.12.67-23.12.67, 1 talk". Osho writes in Letter written on 16 Dec 1967 that he was going to arrive to Lonavala for a workers camp 24-25 Dec 1967 in the evening of 23 Dec 1967. This is surely the first evening talk of Anant Ki Pukar (अनंत की पुकार), which camp started the next day. This resolves a conflicting entry in Neeten's Osho Source Book which says "Bhaivishya Ki Yojna. 23.12.1969am. Lonavala." To have an additional talk on the 23rd in 1967 was tempting, with only the year wrong; however, Osho's letter nixes that, and the pdf's entry here puts the final nail in the coffin of Dec 23 1969, never mind that he was on that day in 1969 in Ahmedabad. Both these possibilities had been entertained in Anant's Talk page.