Talk:Jin Khoja Tin Paiyan (जिन खोजा तिन पाइयां)

Comparing Hindi and English editions

event	Audio of Osho.com and OshoWorld (*1)	Jin Khoja Tin Paiyan (1974.04)	Jin Khoja Tin Paiyan (1997) (*2)	Translation: The Journey of the Kundalini (1974.11) (*2)	Translation: The Mystic Experience (1977) (*2)	Translation: In Search of the Miraculous, Vol 1 (1984) and Vol 2 (1992) (*2)	Location (verbatim as in The Mystic Experience, 1977 ed.)	Dates
Jin Khoja Tin Paiyan ~ 01	1. यात्रा कुंडलिनी की	1. यात्रा कुण्डलिनी की : ऊर्जा-कुण्ड से परमात्मा तक	1. यात्रा कुंडलिनी की	1. The Opening Lecture - The Journey of the Kundalini: From the pool of the life-energy to the universal spirit	1. The Ascent of Kundalini	Vol 1: 1. Kundalini - The Sleeping Serpent	The inaugural discourse, at a meditation camp held in Nargol, Gujarat, India (Hindi)	2 May 1970 pm
Jin Khoja Tin Paiyan ~ 02 (*3)	2. बुंद समानी समुंद में "end missing"	2a. बुन्द समानी समुन्द में	2. बुंद समानी समुंद में	2. The drop merges into the ocean	2. The Slipping of the Drop Into the Ocean	Vol 1: 2. Matter and God are One	Text of a question and answer session at a meditation camp held in Nargol, Gujarat, India (Hindi)	3 May 1970 am
		2b. प्रयोग--कुण्डलिनी-जागरण और ध्यान का		3. Dynamic meditation session	(the meditation part is missing)	Vol 1: 3. Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh leads Dynamic Meditation I	(missing, but the meditation part was of course in the same location)
Jin Khoja Tin Paiyan ~ 03 (*3)	3. ध्यान है महामृत्यु incomplete	3a. ध्यान है महा-मृत्यु और महा-मृत्यु है द्वार अमृत का	3. ध्यान है महामृत्यु	4. Total Death, the Gateway to Immortality	3a. Death: The Doorway to the Deathless	Vol 1: 4. Meditation is Death and Resurrection	Text of a discourse given at a meditation camp held in Nargol, Gujarat, India (Hindi)	3 May 1970 pm
		3b. प्रयोग--कुण्डलिनी-जागरण और ध्यान का (in the end editor's words in order to complete meditation)		(the meditation part is missing)	3b. Experiment in Dynamic Meditation	Vol 1: 5. Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh leads Dynamic Meditation II	"Experiment in Dynamic Meditation", Meditation camp at Nargol, Gujarat, India (Hindi)
Jin Khoja Tin Paiyan ~ 04	4. ध्यान पंथ ऐसो कठिन	4. साधना का पथ है संकल्पवान् और साहसी के लिए	4. ध्यान पंथ ऐसो कठिन		4a. Spirituality: A Path of Courage and Determination	Vol 1: 6. God's Grace and Our Efforts	Text of a discourse given at a meditation camp held in Nargol, Gujarat, India (Hindi)	4 May 1970 pm
Jin Khoja Tin Paiyan ~ 05	5. कुंडलिनी, शक्तिपात व प्रभु-प्रसाद incomplete	5a. ध्यान--एक नये आयाम की खोज : छुण्डलिनी, शक्तिपात व प्रभु-प्रसाद incomplete	5. कुंडलिनी, शक्तिपात व प्रभु प्रसाद		4b. Experiment in Dynamic Meditation	Vol 1: 7. Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh leads Dynamic Meditation III	Text of "Experiment in Dynamic Meditation", given at a meditation camp held in Nargol, Gujarat, India (Hindi)	5 May 1970 am
Jin Khoja Tin Paiyan ~ 06	6. गहरे पानी पैठ	5b. जिन खोजा तिन पाइयाँ गहरे पानी पैठ	6. गहरे पानी पैठ		5. The Spiritual Search	Vol 1: 8. The Decisive Moment is at Hand	Text of a discourse given at a meditation camp held in Nargol, Gujarat, India (Hindi)	5 May 1970 pm
Jin Khoja Tin Paiyan ~ 07	7. कुंडलिनी जागरण व शक्तिपात beginning can be incomplete a little	6. अन्तर्यात्रा के पथ पर कुण्डलिनी-जागरण और शक्तिपात missing first half of the talk (first two questions)	7. कुंडलिनी जागरण व शक्तिपात		6. Shaktipat, Grace, and the Awakening of Kundalini	Vol 1: 9. Kundalini, Shaktipat and Grace	Text of a question and answer session held with Bhagwan in Bombay, India (Hindi)	15 Jun 1970 pm
Jin Khoja Tin Paiyan ~ 08	8. यात्रा: दृश्य से अदृश्य की ओर first question is incomplete and barely audible	7. कुण्डलिनी-साधना--स्थूल से सूक्ष्म और दृश्य से अदृश्य की ओर	8. यात्रा : दृश्य से अदृश्य की ओर		7. The Path of Kundalini	Vol 1: 10. Meditation, not Prayer, has Great Future	Text of a discourse given in Bombay, India (Hindi)	1 Jul 1970 pm
Jin Khoja Tin Paiyan ~ 09	9. श्वास की कीमिया missing first question itself, audio starts with response to it (osho.com: "Question missing in audio")	8. व्यक्तित्व में क्रांति और श्वास की कीमिया after first question itself missing many paragraphs of Osho's response to it and next question	9.श्वास की कीमिया		8. The Alchemy of Breath	Vol 1: 11. The Alchemy of Chaotic Breathing	Text of a discourse given in Bombay, India (Hindi)	2 Jul 1970 am
Jin Khoja Tin Paiyan ~ 10	10. आंतरिक रूपांतरण के तथ्य first sentence incomplete, osho.com: "sound dropout"	9. कुण्डलिनी-जागरण और आन्तरिक रूपान्तरण के तथ्य	10. आंतरिक रूपांतरण के तथ्य		9. Kundalini and Facts About Inner Transformation	Vol 1: 12. Kundalini Will Transform You	Text of a discourse given in Bombay, India (Hindi)	2 Jul 1970 pm
Jin Khoja Tin Paiyan ~ 11	11. मुक्ति सोपान की सी‍‍‍‍ढ़ियां beginning incomplete, osho.com: "sound dropouts"	10. कुण्डलिनी-साधना में परम-शून्य हो गये व्यक्ति का महत्त्व	11. मुक्ति सोपान की सीढ़ियां		10. The Nature of a Kundalini Master	Vol 2: 1. Outer help in the growth of kundalini ernergy	Text of a discourse given in Bombay, India (Hindi)	4 Jul 1970 pm
Jin Khoja Tin Paiyan ~ 12	12. सतत साधना: न कहीं रुकना, न कहीं बंधना first question inaudible; last minute untranscribed	11. सतत् साधना--न कहीं रुकना, न कहीं बँधना	12. सतत साधना : न कहीं रुकना, न कहीं बंधना		11. Kundalini Sadhana: A Journey into Total Freedom	Vol 2: 2. Ripening of the meditator on the path	Text of a discourse given in Bombay, India (Hindi)	5 Jul 1970 pm
Jin Khoja Tin Paiyan ~ 13	13. सात शरीरों से गुजरती कुंडलिनी beginning incomplete	12. कुण्डलिनी-साधना--बंधन से मुक्ति की ओर	13. सात शरीरों से गुजरती कुंडलिनी		12. Kundalini Sadhana: From Bondage to Liberation	Vol 2: 3. The path of kundalini: authenticity and freedom	Text of a discourse given in Bombay, India (Hindi)	6 Jul 1970 pm
Jin Khoja Tin Paiyan ~ 14	14. सात शरीर और सात चक्र missing first question itself, both audios start with response to it (osho:com note: "Question missing in audio")	13. कुण्डलिनी-साधना में सात शरीर और सात चक्र	14. सात शरीर और सात चक्र		13. Kundalini Sadhana and the Seven Chakras	Vol 2: 4. The mysteries of the seven bodies and seven chakras	Text of a discourse given in Bombay, India (Hindi)	7 Jul 1970 pm
Jin Khoja Tin Paiyan ~ 15	15. धर्म के असीम रहस्य सागर में	14. आधुनिक विज्ञान की डुबकी--धर्म के असीम रहस्य-सागर में inserted 3 paragraphs in the end (it is not part of this event)	15. धर्म के असीम रहस्य सागर में		14. The Plunge of Science Intro the Mysteries of Religion	Vol 2: 5. The occult mysteries of religion	Text of a discourse given in Bombay, India (Hindi)	8 Jul 1970 pm
Jin Khoja Tin Paiyan ~ 16	16. ओम् साध्य है, साधन नहीं	15. शक्तिपात और प्रभु-प्रसाद ( ग्रेस ) के अंतरंग रहस्यों में	16. ओम् साध्य है, साधन नहीं		15. The Intimate Mysteries of Shaktipat and Grace	Vol 2: 6. Shaktipat: the mysteries of body-electricity	Text of a discourse given in Bombay, India (Hindi)	9 Jul 1970 pm
Jin Khoja Tin Paiyan ~ 17	17. मनस से महाशून्य तक beginning incomplete	16. शरीर से आत्मा और आत्मा से ब्रह्म, निर्वाण और महापरिनिर्वाण तक	17. मनस से महाशून्य तक		16. From the Physical Plane to Nirvana - the Ultimate Death	Vol 2: 7. Kundalini: the dicipline of transcendence	Text of a discourse given in Bombay, India (Hindi)	10 Jul 1970 pm
Jin Khoja Tin Paiyan ~ 18	18. तंत्र के गुह्य आयामों में osho.com audio: missing last sentence	17. कुण्डलिनी-साधना और तन्त्र के गुह्य ( Esoteric ) आयामों में	18. तंत्र के गुह्य आयामों में		17. Kundalini and the Esoteric Dimensions of Tantra	Vol 2: 8. The esoteric dimensions of tantra	Text of a discourse given in Bombay, India (Hindi)	11 Jul 1970 pm
Jin Khoja Tin Paiyan ~ 19	19. अज्ञात, अपरिचित गहराइयों में	18. कुण्डलिनी व अध्यात्म की अज्ञात--अपरिचित गहराइयों में	19. अज्ञात, अपरिचित गहराइयों में		18. Occult Depths of Kundalini and Spirituality	Vol 2: 9. Occult depths of kundalini and spirituality	Text of a discourse given in Bombay, India (Hindi)	12 Jul 1970 pm

notes

(*1) OshoWorld mp3s have no titles for each audio, only series title. The titles shown are from Osho.com.

(*2) Check of these edition mostly based on their chapter titles.

(*3) In several books, events 2 and 3 were divided into two chapters: first the discourse, then the meditation. Sometimes the meditation parts were omitted in the publication.

Deliberations

The story of the picture from the early edition is this: The woman in the pic is Nirmala Srivastava, who went into the guru business herself not long after this camp, as Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi. She traveled with Osho in his car back to Mumbai after the camp, and on the way they stopped at Muktananda's ashram in Ganeshpuri, since Osho had been long invited to visit there. Osho reports in The Goose Is Out that when she "saw Muktananda, she could not believe that this stupid-looking man - disgusting, more or less a buffoon - had become a great spiritual leader.

"After the tea when we re-entered the car she said, 'If this man can become a spiritual leader, then why can't I?'

"I said 'You can', And she became one."

This and much more all reported at [1]. For much much more, including more from The Goose is Out, click on the "Sources" link at the top of the page there, or go directly to [2].

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About the ISBN 9788172612467 for the Osho Media 2013 edition, it's the usual story, # unsupported by ISBN finders.

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The TOC below is derived from the Diamond edition. Note the division between the first 6 chapters and the last 13. The first 6 are explicitly introduced as being from the meditation camp (साधना शिविर) and the others are referred to as question and answers/discussions given later in Mumbai. Note also that the CD ROM assigns 8 discourses rather than 6 to the camp portion, but still the 13 subsequently. Evidently some amalgamation has happened. Audiobook sites fwiw also have only the 19 talks. The translations used in the CD ROM are the 12 chapters of In Search of the Miraculous, Vol 1 and 9 from In Search of the Miraculous, Vol 2.

The title of the 6th chapter in the Diamond book is Gahre Pani Paith, whence comes the subtitle of the book. This subtitle is actually included in the title in more than a few booksellers' sites, leading to some funny results when searching for Osho's book of that title. Perhaps it is the karma of that book to be conflated with others. See the discussion page of that book for more on that conundrum.

साधना शिविर

1 यात्रा कुंडलिनी की

2 बुंद समानी समुंद में

3 ध्यान है महामृत्यु

4 ध्यान पंथ ऐसो कठिन

5 कुंडलिनी, शक्तिपात व प्रभु प्रसाद

6 गहरे पानी पैठ

प्रश्नोत्तर चर्चाएं

7 कुंडलिनी जागरण व शक्तिपात

8 यात्रा : दृश्य से अदृश्य की ओर

9 श्वास की कीमिया

10 आंतरिक रूपांतरण के तथ्य

11 मुक्ति सोपान की सीढ़ियां

12 सतत साधना : न कहीं रुकना, न कहीं बंधना

13 सात शरीरों से गुजरती कुंडलिनी

14 सात शरीर और सात चक्र

15 धर्म के असीम रहस्य सागर में

16 ओम् साध्य है, साधन नहीं

17 मनस से महाशून्य तक

18 तंत्र के गुह्य आयामों में

19 अज्ञात, अपरिचित गहराइयों में

Update with the 1997 scans: The chapter titles seem roughly to match up, though i haven't gone over them with a fine-toothed comb. The big visual differences are in all the extra wording in the contents image. All that extra material is not part of a any title but more describing or labeling the events. In the second section for instance, the extra material is only numbering the "Q&A Discussions", from 1st to 13th.

For the first six chapters, the extra material is more varied but still descriptive of the event; thus, we have for ch 3, "3rd discourse and meditation experiment", and so on.

And somehow i cannot get the gallery with the Contents and Pub Info pages to display properly in the article page. I put it at the end because that's where it would display, but when i tried to have it in with the 1997 edition, no gallery at all would display, even one which worked fine in what seemed to be a similar context in its own page. Any ideas? -- doofus-9 07:40, 28 July 2017 (UTC)

There was "|" mark right after ISBN number in last line for that edition.--DhyanAntar 06:23, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

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A few small changes made to text versions of the chapter titles, now theoretically aligned with contents scan. -- doofus-9 07:46, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

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A table with chapter titles, location, date, as found in the books to be added here. 
And the links with The Mystic Experience etc.
It's on the todo list.

--Sugit (talk) 12:36, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

Done in above table.--DhyanAntar 03:25, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

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Now installing Dates and Places info per Jagdish, image right. Will not transcribe the lot here since the Timeline already has dates and places info for Jin Khoja. Note that chap 19 is missing in the image. Note also the theme of "Kundalini Yoga" that pervades the Mumbai talks, all Q&A's dealing likely with the Dynamic Meditation which Osho has introduced in the Nargol camp. Perhaps there is a knowledgeable comment about this term somewhere in the literature.

Generally speaking, these data can be said to confirm and augment the Timeline, in that a) all the dates agree, leaving aside the missing one, and b) we can now pinpoint the venue in Mumbai as CCI Chambers. However, there is a small conflict: two times of day are different, pm instead of am. Since the Jul 1 pm is more plausible than the am currently in the Timeline, will change both those am's (Jun 15 and Jul 1) and add the CCI Chambers to all Mumbai dates. -- doofus-9 05:39, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

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During my visit in Mehasana last Nov i looked in one of early editions: the book was in not good condition, all title pages and pub info torn out. Contents pages are saved and they look like second edition. We do not have images of first editions, that's possible this book was either first or second edition judging by TOC.

Dates stated in chapters of 1974ed. match our current Timeline dates: and here is confirmation that both dates, Jun 15 and Jul 1, have pm time.--DhyanAntar 06:15, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

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It seems ch.16 is listed in Hindi series of talks with dates 2 (source document) as ॐ की साधना (Om Ki Sadhana) with the same date (1 talk, 9 Jul 1970).--DhyanAntar 09:01, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

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1974ed.:

ch.2: meditation separated as chapter "2b". So event 2 presented in the book as "2a" and "2b".

ch.3: it is separated by the same way here on "3a" and "3b" (meditation). It needs to note that meditation recorded not completely and last 5 paragraphs are words by editors (they match to last 4 paragraphs in ch.3 of Shailendra's PDF).

ch.5: although the chapter separated as "5a" and "5b" they both are different events, morning's and evening's.

--DhyanAntar 06:23, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

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Description tells that last 13 talks are "intimate". I am not sure about their determination as Private talks event type.--DhyanAntar 05:48, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

Why are you not sure? --Sugit (talk) 07:31, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

I didn't meet sequential series of intimate talks. If so, then it will be the first for me. Secondly, the place is CCI Chambers: does it mean Osho's flat or talks were somewhere nearby? Thirdly, those 13 talks are related with main series given in Nargol, so it is not in favor of intimate talk type; this last point is uncertain for me too.--DhyanAntar 08:22, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

Aha, curious indeed. A series of intimate talks is unlikely. But I would say even more strong proof is the venue "CCI Chambers": very many public talks were held there. Or would it be possible that Osho has a public talk in CCI Chambers, and then directly after or before that he has an informal talk with friends ? Was there another talk that day in that location?

And if that is not the case, and they were in fact public talks, then that means we have to be careful with interpreting such a description in a book calling the talks "intimate": it may mean they are in fact public and the word "intimate" is just an impression or "advertisement".