Talk:Kya Ishwar Mar Gaya Hai? (क्या ईश्वर मर गया है?)

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Current Understanding

event audio,
OshoWorld
audio,
Osho.com
Shailendra's PDF, Osho.com library 1975 book edition OshoWorld e-book Dates & Places
Kya Ishwar Mar Gaya Hai ~ 01 #1 1. जो मर जाए वह ईश्र्वर ही नहीं 1. जो मर जाए वह ईश्वर ही नहीं 1. जो मर जाय वह ईश्वर ही नहीं 1. जो मर जाए वह ईश्वर ही नहीं 20 Mar 1967 pm, Cross Maidan, Bombay
Kya Ishwar Mar Gaya Hai ~ 02 #2 2. जो मिटेगा, वही पाएगा 2. जो मिटेगा, वही पाएगा 2. जो मिटेगा, वही पायेगा 2. जो मिटेगा, वही पायेगा 21 Mar 1967 pm, Cross Maidan, Bombay
Kya Ishwar Mar Gaya Hai ~ 03 #3 3. ज्ञान की पहली किरण 3. ज्ञान की पहली किरण 3. ज्ञान की पहली किरण 3. ज्ञान की पहली किरण 22 Mar 1967 pm, Cross Maidan, Bombay
Kya Ishwar Mar Gaya Hai ~ 04 #4 4. प्रेम की भाषा 4. प्रेम की भाषा 4. प्रेम की भाषा 4. प्रेम की भाषा 23 Mar 1967 pm, Cross Maidan, Bombay
Kya Manushya Ek Yantra Hai ~ 01 #5 Kya Manushya Ek Yantra Hai? 1. मनुष्य एक यंत्र है Kya Manushya Ek Yantra Hai 1. मनुष्य एक यंत्र है 20 May 1967, Cross Maidan, Bombay
Kya Manushya Ek Yantra Hai ~ 02 #6 Kya Manushya Ek Yantra Hai? 2. यांत्रिकता को जानना क्रांति है Kya Manushya Ek Yantra Hai 2. यांत्रिकता को जानना क्रांति है 21 May 1967, Cross Maidan, Bombay
Kya Manushya Ek Yantra Hai ~ 03 #7 Kya Manushya Ek Yantra Hai? 3. जागरण के तीन सूत्र Kya Manushya Ek Yantra Hai 3. जागरण के सूत्र 22 May 1967, Cross Maidan, Bombay
Kya Manushya Ek Yantra Hai ~ 04 #8 Kya Manushya Ek Yantra Hai? 4. जाग जाना धर्म है Kya Manushya Ek Yantra Hai 4. जाग जाना धर्म है 23 May 1967 pm, Cross Maidan, Bombay


Deliberations

source: http://nationallibrary.gov.in/showdetails.php?id=441733, (ie this is the source of the info about the 2002 edition)


प्रवचन (audio TOC):
1: जो मर जाए वह ईश्र्वर ही नहीं
2: जो मिटेगा, वही पाएगा
3: ज्ञान की पहली किरण
4: प्रेम की भाषा

The e-book seems to have the same four chapters, though this is not so easy to discern. There are no chapter numbers or even significant spacing between chapters, with titles hardly standing out, if at all. And at only 68 pages, we can't expect much more.

A source has been found for some date possibilities: Neeten's Osho Source Book (Appendix section) has one entry for Ishwar, placing two talks on Dec 7 1967. Neeten also has a mention of a Mar 21 1967 talk of Ishwar in his Jabalpur section (though the talk was in Mumbai). All needs confirmation and says nothing about the other (however many) talks or even which ones they might be, but it's a start. -- doofus-9 (talk) 20:34, 20 May 2015 (UTC)


Revisiting the TOC info, we find that it was from osho.com's audiobook section. Osho World also offers a four-discourse audiobook, with titles as above except for small differences in the first title. For that, they have: जो मर गया है वह ईश्वर नहीं है. There are small changes in the verb form, perhaps as we might say in English that someone has died vs someone is dead. Also o.com seems to have misspelled ईश्वर (ishwar), as ईश्र्वर. Why either of these changes were made is a mystery. -- doofus-9 07:46, 9 March 2017 (UTC)


The March 21 date has been confirmed in an excerpt from Laherubhai's book Blessed Moments with Osho. It was the day he first saw Osho and he says it was the 2nd day of the talks in this series and that it was at Cross Maidan in Mumbai. That wouldn't necessarily make it ch 2, but he also names the chapter title, Jo Mitega Wahi Payega, which not only nails that but implies fairly strongly that Mar 20 was ch 1. -- doofus-9 05:37, 19 November 2017 (UTC)


Kya Ishwar mar gaya hai 1-4 D&P.jpg

Dates and places image in from Jagdish confirms Laheru's date and place above and nails the others. Text version follows:

1. Mar 20 1967 pm Cross Maidan, Bombay
2. Mar 21 1967 pm Cross Maidan, Bombay (Q&A)
3. Mar 22 1967 pm Cross Maidan, Bombay
4. Mar 23 1967 pm Cross Maidan, Bombay (Q&A)

Great work below sussing out the would-be other four talks of Kya Ishwar, Kya Manushya. Splendid! -- doofus-9 17:44, 2 March 2019 (UTC)


Date of most early edition states as 1975 on the grounds of: recently published and upcoming English books (≥Dec 1975 and ≤Feb 1976) (see list 2 on main page) and date 1975 of Copyrights of Rajneesh Foundation (mentioned in pub info).--DhyanAntar 14:58, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

media status

OshoWorld has 8 mp3s in their free download offering. --Sugit (talk) 17:49, 11 August 2015 (UTC)


Judging by the durations of 4 the audios on osho.com, I would say audios 5-8 of OW are 4 chapters of Kya Manushya Ek Yantra Hai? (क्या मनुष्य एक यंत्र है?).--DhyanAntar 08:42, 22 November 2018 (UTC)


So it seems that the original version had 4 discourses, just as Kya Manushya Ek Yantra Hai? has 4 discourses. So I have changed the 8 eventNames that I thought up before into 4, the other 4 will be "Kya Manushya Ek Yantra Hai". --Sugit (talk) 18:12, 5 December 2018 (UTC)


That's right, Sugit. My check presented in Current Understanding table confirmed those 4 talks of Kya Maushya.--DhyanAntar 04:44, 14 May 2020 (UTC)