Talk:Osho Timeline 1985

poison trail..

[1] Osho has to sleep on a filthy matress laced with radioactive material.

Kristian Dahl-Madsen, a Danish sannyasin and nuclear engineering expert with an M.S. degree from the Royal Institute of Technology in Stockholm, Sweden, described for me how radioactivity works.

"A normally sensitive person can feel if he is being given a substantial dose of induced radioactivity. However, this sensitivity can be avoided by either creating a stress situation or by making sure that the subject is cold and, therefore, insensitive. This could explain why Osho was not given a blanket in November. He would not receive a pillow because they would want to get his head as close as possible to the source of radiation. Apparently, they wanted to destroy his mental abilities, faculties of speech and his immune system." (Max Brecher, A Passage to America)

[2] Osho has to eat bread soaked with the heavy metal Thallium.

Soluble thallium salts (many of which are nearly tasteless) are highly toxic in quantity, and were historically used in rat poisons and insecticides. Use of these compounds has been restricted or banned in many countries, because of their nonselective toxicity. Notably, thallium poisoning results in hair loss. Because of its historic popularity as a murder weapon, thallium has gained notoriety as "the poisoner's poison" and "inheritance powder" (alongside arsenic).

--Rudra (talk) 05:49, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

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this is a nice dig from the archives of the german parliament.

they issued a decree banning Osho from Germany before he even left the ranch.

12. Abgeordneter

Dr. Meyer zu Bentrup (CDU/CSU)

Wie beurteilt die Bundesregierung die rechtlichen Möglichkeiten, die in der Öffentlichkeit erhobene Forderung nach einer Verweigerung der Einreise des Sektenführers Bhagwan in die Bundesrepublik Deutschland durchzusetzen?

Antwort des Staatssekretärs Neusel vom 14. Oktober 1985

Die Bundesregierung hat veranlaßt, daß dem Sektenführer Rajneesh, Chandra Mohan, genannt Bhagwan, kein Sichtvermerk für die Bundesrepublik Deutschland erteilt wird, weil seine Anwesenheit im Bundesgebiet Belange der Bundesrepublik Deutschland beeinträchtigen würde (vgl. § 2 Abs. 1 Satz 2 des Ausländergesetzes). Bei einem Versuch der Einreise ohne Sichtvermerk ist er zurückzuweisen.

--Rudra (talk) 18:47, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

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Listings for fourteen Hindi "discourses" from Phir Amrit Ki Bund Padi (फिर अमरित की बूंद पड़ी) and Phir Patto Ki Panjeba Baji (फिर पत्तो की पाजेबा बजी) were removed, as they have been revealed to be translations from English talks (Last Testaments). -- doofus-9 18:00, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

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new type: Satsang

So I see that Rudra has made a template for adding "celebrations" to the timeline, great (21 Mar and 6 Jul).

As for this idea to call that "Satsang", that also seems a good idea to me, as in "silent meeting with the master". But just to be sure: what, again, is the difference between "satsang", "darshan" and "celebration" ? Is it silent/Osho speaks? Is it morning/evening? I believe we had an earlier discussion, where doofus said something relevant on this.

Please note as examples, there is a 1985-07-06 Master's Day Satsang ~ The Benediction of Now, and there also is a 1985-07-06 Master's Day Darshan.

Also note, some music/celebration tapes were explicitly called like this: 1981-12-11 Golden Birthday Celebration, so not satsang or darshan (maybe this is the only example of this).

And also to be explicit: we will only mention events where it is at least likely that Osho was present, right?

--Sugit (talk) 16:14, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

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right Sugit. this timetable is purely about the whereabouts of Osho, NOT what we were doing at the time, eg celebrating ;)

re "Satsang" i use that term for Osho being silent in public, "Darshan" for talking to people in a relatively small setting, unlike big "Discourses" where he does not talk to people as such but about stuff. and he certainly does NOT do "Celebration" -- that is his permanent state of being. so it seems more that the people producing the tape just wanted to emphasise the fact that it was a big party, although technically it was "just" a Satsang. and i have absolutely no idea what a "Master's Day Darshan" is supposed to be. --Rudra (talk) 14:06, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

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As this terminology has migrated to the West, we have not really made it very standardized. What you mean by "satsang" and "darshan" is not necessarily what the namers of "Master's Day Darshan" mean. What i recall from those ranch celebrations, which is not necessarily accurate, is that the usage of the time had "darshan" reserved for the evening celebration on the biggest day. In the summer celebrations, the biggest ones of the year, that was "Master's Day", the culmination of five or whatever days of satsangs. In terms of sheer numbers, it was the least intimate of the gatherings.

"Satsang", as i understand it in relation to its traditional usage, means a "fellowship of truth", and as such is not necessarily silent. Lots of satsang walas speak in their satsangs. And "darshan" literally means "vision", and is used traditionally in many ways and contexts: could mean opinion, philosophy ... "doordarshan" is even used to literally mean television (far vision). Sannyas usage is more specialized but not really standardized. We don't exactly make it up as we go along, but it's pretty loose. -- doofus-9 18:26, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

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Ah yes, that is a useful wrap up. My memories about the Ranch naming of events are the same as yours, and also the other designations I recognize. So what should be the verdict? The plan now is to call every celebratory event where Osho was present and silent "a satsang". Will that do? Will it cover everything?

Or, in stead of "Satsang", would it be better to simply call them "Celebration" ? It would then be implicit that Osho was present, as everything we put in the timeline is about Osho. (Other cases? "Celebrations" elsewhere in the Wiki where Osho is not present, like 1990-07-08 Guru Purnima seems not relevant.) --Sugit (talk) 06:50, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

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1985.07.17.om

The physical book The Last Testament, Vol 1 ch.2 has not been published in the CD-ROM, and no audio available. The book:

Interview by Jo McManues, Western Mail, Australia. Chapter 2: Appendix 1 - Moment to Moment

--Sugit (talk) 11:35, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

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1985.09.24

Press Conferences ~ 04 and The Last Testament (Vol 3) ~ 03 both have ArchiveCode=8509245. Which was first? I bet on Press Conferences ~ 04, as that has an explicit introduction by Sheela and Osho. --Sugit (talk) 18:28, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

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you lost the bet ;) Osho answers your question in TLT3.3 : Q: WHAT DO YOU DO DURING AN AVERAGE DAY FROM THE TIME YOU GET UP TILL THE TIME YOU GO TO SLEEP.

A: It is completely busy without business. Six o'clock in the morning I wake up. Two hours in my bathroom and swimming pool, which I have always loved. Then my breakfast, and I go to the meeting of the commune, my everyday discourse. By eleven I am back. I take my lunch, go to sleep for two hours. Then for one and half hour I go driving in the mountains. That is the only time that I have for myself. Back again; two hours to the bathroom and the swimming pool. Then I take my supper. And straight from the supper table I am here for any interview. Sometimes there is one interview, sometimes two, sometimes three. Now today your interview is one hour; then 8:30 there is a big press conference that will last at least two hours. Then one hour for my secretary, for day-to-day problems about the commune. Nearbaout twelve I go to sleep. And the day goes so fast... --Rudra (talk) 05:24, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

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Whoaaa, that is quite a find. This will teach me not to bet Osho's beard. I will change the media. --Sugit (talk) 12:15, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

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1985.12.23

The Last Testament (Vol 5) #12 was dated 23 December 1985, no doubt because that is what the CD-ROM says. The CD-ROM also says Archive code = 8512270, and that seems more like it, because 1) the order of the lecture-numbers and 2) the date on the remastered audio tapes. So I corrected the date.

(By the way: that audio tape -and all presently circulating MP3s- contains the wrong text, namely that of Light on the Path #2. Which is of an interview on the same date but PM.) --Sugit (talk) 19:01, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

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Sheela leaves Rajneeshpuram

But on what date? Right now, in the timeline it is set at Sep 14, 1985. Also, in her book Don't Kill Him!, she has a timeline with Sep 14, 1985: Ma Sheela resigns and leaves Rajneeshpuram. Other members of her team follow in her footsteps the next day.

But according to Sheela "13th September 1985 was my personal independence day. That was the day I left Bhagwan." (Interview in the Netflix series Wild Wild Country (2018), part 4, 1:00:50).

Press Conferences, ch. 1 (marked as 16 Sept, 1985) is the big press conference where Osho first talks about Sheela's leaving. Osho: "And then suddenly one day, just one day before, Sheela and all her gang simply left America,". So that would be Sept 15. Hmmm. And thereafter this is the subject in every daily interview.

In the interview series The Last Testament (Vol 2) there are interviews up until Sep 17 (ch. 26) without mention of Sheela's leaving; then in ch. 27 (marked Sep 18) that is the main issue.

For now, indeed Sep 14 seems best guess. Anyone has more input on this date? --Sugit (talk) 20:12, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

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Surendra's article in Osho News makes it clear that Osho answered Sheela's question on the evening of the 13th, but she physically packed her bags and left on the 14th. Osho answered her question as to why she doesn't feel excited to come back to the Ranch as much as she used to. -- doofus-9 18:44, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

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Mahaparinirvana Day

It seems here is missing satsang for Sep 8th. It mentioned on telegram by a guy, who searching it among other satsang videos of Ranch time.

May i add this event?--DhyanAntar 02:16, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

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Do we have any information that there was any celebration on 1985-09-08 ? If yes, then do add, but I have not seen it. --Sugit (talk) 14:43, 9 December 2019 (UTC)