Talk:Path Ki Khoj (पथ की खोज)

From The Sannyas Wiki
Jump to: navigation, search

Current Understanding

event audio,
OshoWorld
audio,
Osho.com
One-chapter booklets Shailendra's PDF, Oshoganga (*1) Osho.com library, 2015 book edition, OMI e-book Dates & Places
Path Ki Khoj ~ 01 Jeevan Ki Khoj #1 1. आनंद हमारा स्वरूप है 1. आनंद हमारा स्वरूप है 1. आनंद हमारा स्वरूप है unknown (8 Sep 1964, Bombay ?)
Path Ki Khoj ~ 02 Jeevan Ki Khoj #2 2. आत्म-दर्शन 2. आत्म-दर्शन 2. आत्म-दर्शन 9 Sep 1964 am, Tarabai Hall, Bombay
Path Ki Khoj ~ 03 Jeevan Ki Khoj #3 3. मूर्च्छा परिग्रह 3. मूर्च्छा परिग्रह 3. मूर्च्छा परिग्रह 9 Sep 1964 om**, Tarabai Hall, Bombay ?
Path Ki Khoj ~ 04 Jeevan Ki Khoj #4 4. जीवन-दर्शन 4. जीवन-दर्शन 4. जीवन-दर्शन 9 Sep 1964 pm, Amulakh Amichand HS, Bombay
Path Ki Khoj ~ 05 Sadhana Path - Path Ki Khoj 5. पथ की खोज Sinhanad (सिंहनाद) (1965ed.) (*1)
Path Ki Khoj (1972ed.) (*1)
5. पथ की खोज (*1) 5. पथ की खोज (*1) 10 Sep 1964 am, Alankar Theatre, Bombay
Surya Ki Or Udan ~ 01 Surya Ki Or Udan (1st ed. (~1968), 1974 ed.) 6. सूर्य की ओर उड़ान 6. सूर्य की ओर उड़ान 24 Jan 1965 ? **, Bombay
Samadhi Ke Teen Charan ~ 01 Amrit Ki Disha #5 Samadhi Ke Teen Charan 1. चित्त की स्वतंत्रता 7. सत्य से अज्ञात सागर का आमंत्रण (*2) 13 Dec 1965 pm, Ahmednagar
notes
(*1) Text version of the event was edited and is 'improved form of the given discourse' as stated in 1972ed ("दिए गए एक प्रवचन का परिर्ध्दित रूप"). Shailendra checked and confirmed that text and audio match, but text is edited. He said: "Only 2-3 sentences are not there in the end. The rest is the same. Those sentences in the audio, look like extra matter, Osho has already finished once. Then he spoke for a minute and re-finished the talk. In the book, it will not look good. Few old discourses (before 1968) were edited in this way, either by Osho himself or on his instruction, by some one else." (8 Sep 2020) As most of text available as Osho's manuscript Jeevan Sampada Ka Adhikar (जीवन सम्पदा का अधिकार) it seems editing made by him. Later, 2015, edition can have transcribed again text, which most close to the audio (to be checked).
(*2) Chapter titles on Oshoganga are the same except second word in last chapter: "के".


Older approaches

There are a few odd things about this series that make it hard to be sure what is being offered in the various formats. Possibly a good part of the fogginess that arises is because one of the chapters / discourses is also called Path Ki Khoj.

One of the places this little dichotomy shows up is in Sadhana Path (साधना पथ). Looking at some detail there might be useful to see how pervasive the fog is. Sadhana Path's story is complicated by having three different published versions. We needn't be overly distracted by that, but to some extent it is germane to our Path Ki Khoj inquiry. In Osho World's free download audio section, there are sixteen mp3s on offer on the Sadhana Path page, one for each of the discourses of the various series affiliated with it in one version or another (and none of the original Sadhana Path). Thus there are eight Sadhana Path Antaryatras, seven Sadhana Path Prabhu Ki Pagdandiyans and only one Sadhana Path Path Ki Khoj. All are between 51 and 83 minutes long, the Path Ki Khoj one being 63.

In their paid audiobook section, suddenly there are seven mp3s comprising Sadhana Path - Path Ki Khoj. Timings are not given there, but they are in the corresponding osho.com audiobook offering. Both are laid out below, with their own twists and turns. They present the series in two different ways but at least # 1-5 are the same, though the order is a little strange in osho.com's. The individual discourse Path Ki Khoj is # 5 in both cases. And the osho.com version has it at that same 63 minutes, so it's not a great leap to presume it to be that one PKK discourse in their free download offering. And from there it's not a great leap to presume it to be the one PKK chapter in Diamond's 2004 edition of Sadhana Path, though it takes up nearly a third of the whole book. There are problems with that view though, having to do with page counts, so perhaps best to leave it as a knotty conundrum for now. Sinhanad's history and contents are also not known, so no help there.

Also interesting is something that came to light when researching Surya Ki Or Udan (सूर्य की ओर उड़ान). That title is also the title of discourse # 6 in Osho World's offering. Okay, series / book titles are (re-)used all the time for discourse / chapter titles, like no big deal, eh? Well, as it happens, the title of discourse # 7 also seems to be recycled, from another obscure book(let) called Satya Ke Agyat Sagar Ka Amantran (सत्य के अज्ञात सागर का आमंत्रण). Both come apparently from the same era, published by the late 60's. Both are cited by Gyan Bhed and by Osho's long-time friend Ram Chandra Prasad in his book Rajneesh: The Mystic of Feeling, and both of them are re-cited in Neeten's Osho Source Book. In Prasad's book, the citations are as abbreviations used in footnotes, ie significant books referred to often enough to merit these abbreviations.

Whatever. It seems we may have to consider that these titles may have been added to Path Ki Khoj in error. No other audio site has audio for either of these titles, and only Osho World has more than five discourses for Path Ki Khoj, unless you count osho.com's two blanks numbered 0 and 0. And both titles come from a similar place, so that they come together may be a little suspicious. Either a mistake or brilliant and unique, take yer pick. Or listen to Osho World's audiobook and find copies of Surya and Amantran and compare them with the audio. (Good luck with that.) -- updated doofus-9 (talk) 16:54, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

TOCs

    Osho World's version:
1. आनंद हमारा स्वरूप है
2. आत्म दर्शन
3. मूच्र्छा-परिग्रह
4. जीवन दर्शन
5. पथ की खोज
6. सूर्य की ओर उड़ान
7. सत्य से अज्ञात सागर का आमंत्रण  
    osho.com's audiobook:
0.
1. आनंद हमारा स्वरूप है  
2. आत्म-दर्शन 54
3. मूर्च्छा परिग्रह 84
4. जीवन-दर्शन 57
5. पथ की खोज
0.
    osho.com's book:
0.
1. आनंद हमारा स्वरूप है  
2. आत्म-दर्शन
3. मूर्च्छा परिग्रह
4. जीवन-दर्शन
5. पथ की खोज
6. सूर्य की ओर उड़ान
    2015 OMI hard copy
(see Jun 2017 update below)
1. आनंद हमारा स्वरूप है
2. आत्म-दर्शन**
3. मूर्च्छा परिग्रह**
4. जीवन-दर्शन**
5. पथ की खोज
6. सूर्य की ओर उड़ान

2017 Updates

Osho.com also appears to be offering a Path Ki Khoj hard-copy book, which splits the difference between the two audiobook offerings above, ie there are six chapters including Path Ki Khoj the single-discourse former Sinhanad as chapter 5 and Surya Ki Or Udan as chapter 6, so missing only Amantran. Thus is OW's audiobook offering of the two at least partially vindicated.

However, their "book" is not all it's cracked up to be. They do mention 112 pages (which is not very long, especially when you consider all the promotional material that usually goes into their books these days, and even an ISBN, 978-8172612474. Were that ISBN to pan out, that would be something but alas, a direct search for it reveals that number is already associated with another book, Jyotish Vigyan, possibly (likely?) a remake of Jyotish: Advait Ka Vigyan (ज्योतिष : अद्वैत का विज्ञान), a two-talk series on Jyotish, Indian astrology, from the early 70s in Mumbai. There are no mentions of Path Ki Khoj as hard copy other than this somewhat suspect one from osho.com.

And fwiw, regarding the two audiobook offerings, OW's is now "out of stock" and o.com's is still there (though i didn't actually try to buy it) but has dropped the two empty chapters (the 0's above). -- doofus-9 21:47, 19 May 2017 (UTC)


Lord knows where the book mentioned in the above update came from and went to but since neither its page count nor its ISBN correspond with the one now on the article page, we can let it go gentle into that good night. Meanwhile, we do have the 2015 edition to look at:

Shailendra has confirmed that Surya is ch 6 of an edition that came out in 2015 and that Amantran was indeed included in an earlier edition as ch 7 but was dropped for the 2015 edition, and they are the 60's booklets. And he has supplied a lineage chart relating to the first four chapters as well. We have heard so much about Sinhanad and ch 5 but what of the first four? Well, here they are ...

PKK-2015-index.jpg
Blank.jpg
PKK-2015-claims.jpg

Path Ki Khoj (LATEST-2015 edition)

Jeevan Ki Khoj #1 became Path Ki Khoj #1
Jeevan Ki Khoj #2 became Path Ki Khoj #2
Jeevan Ki Khoj #3 became Path Ki Khoj #3
Jeevan Ki Khoj #4 became Path Ki Khoj #4
Jeevan Ki Khoj #5 became Jeevan Ki Khoj #1
Jeevan Ki Khoj #6 became Jeevan Ki Khoj #2
Jeevan Ki Khoj #7 became Jeevan Ki Khoj #3
Jeevan Ki Khoj #8 became Jeevan Ki Khoj #4
Jeevan Ki Khoj #9 became Jeevan Ki Kala #6

Like many "answers", this of course leads to more questions, but it will do for now. And the 2015 index page (image upper right) does also correspond to the audio titles, which is a minor miracle. And page numbers even.


Title of ch.3 differs from the title on the image of TOC above - "मूर्च्छा परिग्रह". --DhyanAntar 10:31, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

Yes, updated that + added hyphens that were missing in ch 2 & 4 -- doofus-9 23:06, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

Checked: Sinhanad (सिंहनाद) = Path Ki Khoj 1972 ed. (incl. only chapter) = Path Ki Khoj ch.5 (of 7) of Shailendra's PDF. But Sadhana Path Path Ki of OW (Sinhanad) matches only in beginning, maybe due my not good transcribe skill? To be rechecked.--DhyanAntar 18:25, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

It is checked by Shailendra, see Current Understanding table above.--DhyanAntar 13:37, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

OMI Claims

And about the claims made by OMI in the page shown lower right, there are a few things ...

The first interesting thing about this page is that it is in English, in a Hindi book. One has to wonder what might be the reason for this.
Second, the address, "17 Koregaon Park, Pune 411001 MS, India": It may be fairly picky, but the abbr for Maharashtra is MH, not MS. In some informal usages, MS can pass, standing supposedly for Maharashtra State, but it can't be that difficult to get it right. Was it MS before, back in the day, and they just didn't bother changing?
The main event is the paragraph: "The material in this book is a transcript of original OSHO talks 'Path Ki Khoj' given to a live audience. All of Osho's talks have been published in full as books and are also available as original audio recordings."
One gets the impression from these statements that Path Ki Khoj was a cohesive series, though this impression may not be intended. As we have seen above, PKK was certainly not that. Perhaps it was just a way of leading into the sweeping claim in the next sentence, which is certainly not true.
And a curious usage is noted here: we have the phrases "OSHO talks" and "Osho's talks" appearing very close to each other. The difference between "OSHO" and "Osho's" here is striking. It seems clear that "OSHO" (all-caps) refers to the Brand that OIF/OMI is using as a Trademarked commercial entity and "Osho's" without all-caps and with an apostrophe "s" refers to the actual person Osho who lived and breathed and gave these talks. We don't actually see this second usage much in such generalized contexts, as if a lot of such usage would encourage the idea that Osho was a person.
I can't begin to imagine what might be their intention in making that distinction here, and it is possible that their intention is positive, but it does stand out. Perhaps because i was recently given another example of this to consider, i am seeing it here too. (That other example was the name Devapath has given to his therapy process, "Osho's Diamond Breath", rather than just "Osho Diamond Breath". It seems clearly intended to circumvent Trademark holders who have a Brand by stressing the real personness of Osho and thereby asserting a right to use his name. His usage cannot be pointing to Osho as the originator of the therapy process.) I don't know.
Lastly, there is this: "OSHO and OSHO Vision are registered trademarks of OSHO International Foundation". "OSHO Vision" is an imprint of OIF/OMI, and this Trademark has been registered for India only, in 1995, possibly one of the most legitimate uses of "Osho" or "OSHO" in a trademarked term.

-- doofus-9 07:34, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

Dates and Places

Path Ki Khoj 1-5 D&P.jpg

Some Dates and Places info from Jagdish (image right, text version below) has supplied a reasonable context for the above discussions. Five is now clearly the magic number, with Sinhanad (सिंहनाद) the 5th chapter. Sinhanad was the most prominent of them and was published separately for a while but finally was re-absorbed, since, as the four dates suggest, it was always part of the series. And Sinhanad's date, known before from another source, is now confirmed. I like it when that happens! Comments below.

1. no info
2. Sep 9 1964 am Tarabai Hall, Mumbai (Atma Darshan)
3. Sep 9 1964 om Tarabai Hall, Mumbai (Atma Darshan)
4. Sep 9 1964 pm Amulakh Amichand HS, Mumbai (Jeevan Darshan)
5. Sep 10 1964 am Alankar Talkies, Mumbai (Sinhanad)

One does not have to search far for the significance of the words in parentheses. They are more or less the chapter titles. But ... the "more or less" in this case papers over a fair bit of variation. That Sinhanad has been renamed Path Ki Khoj is previously known, so okay there, and ch 2 and 4 have their counterparts in the TOCs above, but what about #3? Likely it is a copy-paste malfunction, with the rest of the info hopefully correct. We await clarification. For now, since it is most likely between ch 2 and 4 chronologically, its date and location can be entered provisionally in the Timeline.

And it can be seen now that the tight togetherness of the dates of ch 2-5 makes a comment i made above in OMI Claims concerning the non-cohesiveness of PKK a little fatuous. -- doofus-9 19:16, 10 March 2019 (UTC)


1972 edition gives "Alankar Theater, Bombay" with the date like Jagdish's, 10 Sep 1964. However Jagdish says "Alankar Talkies". I will stick according event to "Theatre".--DhyanAntar 07:52, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

Media Status

It seems that only osho.com is offering the whole collection of five discourses, with some sound issues. Their offering is the same as reported above in the TOC section, except the two #0 items, explicitly not available, now precede the five that are actually available. As they are mostly intact and a decent length, one has to wonder how the book can be only 112 pages.

1. आनंद हमारा स्वरूप है sound dropouts 60
2. आत्म-दर्शन beginning missing, poor quality at end 54
3. मूर्च्छा परिग्रह 84
4. जीवन-दर्शन 57
5. पथ की खोज 63

-- doofus-9 04:50, 12 March 2019 (UTC)


Big length of ch.5 can be explained by its editing. It is imporved version of the talk. See footnote (*1) under Current Understanding table.--DhyanAntar 13:37, 8 September 2020 (UTC)