Talk:Phir Patton Ki Panjeb Baji (फिर पत्तों की पांजेब बजी)
This book, Patto for short, is one of three Hindi books arising from the World Tour. The other two are Koplen Phir Phoot Aayeen (कोंपलें फिर फूट आईं) and Phir Amrit Ki Boond Padi (फिर अमरित की बूंद पड़ी) (11 talks). All three were first put out by "Rajanisadhama Prakasana," a publisher likely based in Pune and operating only during the Ranch and World Tour times. And all three titles have the word "Phir," meaning among other things, "again," a small but potentially significant element linking them all thematically.
- These three titles are in fact Osho's only titles to use this word "Phir". It is not a stretch to speculate that, as Osho has repeatedly told his people not to repeat things -- i know, i know -- the againness expressed in these titles is something particularly meaningful here. They are his first Hindi books in over four years. They are his last Hindi books ever. He is back in India again, returned to this special place. See also Koplen's talk page for a glimpse of another angle on againness, one that resonates with Osho's "personal" experience. -- added doofus-9 22:29, 4 February 2017 (UTC)
- The material that follows, up to the "Resolution" section, is older, and reflects a groping in the dark to try to make sense of the difficult, partial info that was available at the time. It is left here for the record but contains some assumptions and errors. The Resolution section sets it straight. -- doofus-9 07:46, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
Diving deeper into obscurity . . . Inspired by the e-book versions of Amrit and Koplen found at Osho World -- see Amrit discussion -- i looked into their e-book version of Patto. As with Amrit, there were some dates and places embedded, seemingly coming at the end of chapters, though such info in Patto was more chaotic. As with Amrit, there was little spacing, different fonts, etc to make the info stand out, and info for some chapters was just plain missing. Still, there was enough to get a decent picture, assembled below. Page numbers referred to are those of the pdf:
- Ch 1: भारत: एक सनातन यात्रा (Bharat: Ek Sanatan Yatra) ... 27 Oct, 1986 evg, Sumila (p 17) ††
- Ch 2: मैं केवल एक मित्र हूं (Main Kewal Ek Mitra Hun) ... no time or place (p 36)
- Ch 3: एक पृथ्वी, एक मनुष्यता (Ek Prithvi, Ek Manushyata) ... no time or place (p 49)
- Ch 4: सब प्रश्नों का एक उत्तर: ध्यान (Sab Prashnon Ka Ek Uttar: Dhyan) ... no time or place (p 62) **
- Ch 5: अपनी वास्तविकता को पा लेना स्वर्ग है (Apni Vastavikata Ko Pa Lena Svarg Hai) ... 5 Dec 1985 am Manali (p 74)
- Ch 6: ध्यान प्रक्रिया है रूपांतरण की (Dhyan Prakriya Hai Rupantarana Ki) ... 8 Dec, 1985 pm Manali (p 86) followed by a newer, more solid and professional appearance but basically ch 6 repeated verbatim except "Bhagwan Shree" changed to "Pyar Osho." That section ends at p 94 with a note that this is Osho, Phir Patto etc, discourse 6, the 1987 edition.
- Ch 7: मेरी निंदा: मेरी प्रशंसा (Meri Ninda: Meri Prashansa) ... 24 Dec 1985 pm Manali (p 117)
- Ch 8: जीवन सदा अनिशिचत है (Jeevan Sada Aneeshichat Hai) ... 26 Dec 1985 pm Manali (p 131) **
- Ch 9: इस खेल में गुरु ही जीतता है (Is Khel Mein Guru Hi Jitata Hai) ... 27 Dec 1985 no time Manali (p 145)
- Ch 10: कम्यून अर्थात आध्यात्मिक विश्वविधालय (Kamyun Arthat Adhyatmik Vishwavidhalaya) ... 28 Dec 1985 am Manali (p157) **
- Ch 11: धर्म नितांत वैयक्तिक है (Dharm Nitant Vaiyaktik Hai) ... no time or place (p 168) **
Notes re the above: Ch 2-5 were not explicitly numbered but inferred. ** = Devanagari script issues arose, with a few characters in the pdf (underlined) unable to be replicated exactly.
- †† = More on "againness": The title of this chapter, meaning roughly "India, an eternal pilgrimage", appears to have inspired the compilation of the same name. Not only are they the same verbally but that much-loved compilation has taken its first passages from this chapter. -- added doofus-9 17:12, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
The e-book still leaves some holes but another piece of almost-info does a lot to fill them. "Doc X" gives the dates for Patto as Oct 27 and Dec 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 24, 26, 27, 28 and 30. The catch is they are all in 1986 and in Mumbai. Still, aside from the fact that the year and Mumbai would be wrong, the dates are otherwise an impressive match and fill the holes well. It is not a great leap to infer that Dec 1, 2 and 3 go with chaps 2-4, and Dec 30 with chap 11.
As mentioned in the Amrit discussion, another source has it that it and Patto are translations. This could be credible given the lack of audio to be found, and the e-book doesn't really invalidate that. But now, with the latest look at it, the question of audio is blurred, since two of these chapter titles are identical to those in the audio collection attributed to Amrit. These are ch 1 and 6 above, the two chapters mysteriously IN the audio collection and OMI hard copy edition of Amrit but MISSING from the e-book version.
About the publisher of Patto's hard copy, the previous version of this page in the wiki had it as Rajneesh Foundation. There may not be much conflict about this, just different names for the same people. Source for the "Rajanisadhama Prakasana" is Hathi Trust, a consortium of mainly American Universities. They have a number of Osho's Hindi books squirreled away, some fairly obscure.
And an update regarding minor time conflicts: On some of the dates given above, there are already other discourses, mostly Last Testaments (Vols 4 and 5), given at the same time (when an am/pm time is specified). Since that info comes from the CD-ROM, it shall be treated as more reliable than the am/pm from the e-book, at least for now. Those dates which conflict are Dec 5 am, Dec 24 pm, Dec 26 pm and Dec 28 am. -- updated doofus-9 (talk) 10:51, 9 December 2014 (PST)
Resolution
Since the above was written, two significant understandings have emerged concerning Patto and Amrit. It is now known:
1. How different their later editions are from the 1987 editions, more or less completely re-arranged and interchanged.
2. How much of their "original" material was in fact translation.
Of the 22 chapters in the two books combined, fully 17 are translations. Nine of the eleven chapters in the 1987 Patton are translations. In later editions (2011+), all the Hindi original discourses are put into Amrit (5 talks) and the translations into Patton (2) (17). All the details of these discoveries can be found in Amrit's talk page.
Here we also have to consider the question of whether, at this point, Patton can be thought of as a Hindi original discourse series, purely a translation or both. It seems we have to conclude that it is both, even if its later editions have no original Hindi material whatsoever.
That its first edition had two Hindi talks, even in audio, should be sufficient to count, but there is also its title, with the magic word Phir. This clearly throws it in with the other two Hindi World Tour books in spirit, even if its Hindi original talks have later been transferred away. And it is a "status" that was established when Osho was in the body, and still looking at what was published in his name. So be it. -- doofus-9 07:46, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
Adding to the above, and to keep things 'simple' ;-) , for eventNames we have used the events of Phir Amrit Ki Boond Padi (फिर अमरित की बूंद पड़ी) (5 talks), so that second edition with ONLY 5 Hindi talks. That takes away Phir Patton as an eventName as it's Hindi talks are all covered there. And we have also removed the category First Edition.
See also Talk:Press Conferences in Hindi. --Sugit (talk) 17:48, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
Restored first edition cat. because ch.1 and 6 published at first in this book.
Added TOC on main page: it checked with Hindi book (1987 edition), text checked with English text from CD-ROM.
The Hindi books also contains dates: i made corrections from "pm"-time to "om"-time according to it for events Light on the Path ~ 02, The Last Testament (Vol 4) ~ 22, The Last Testament (Vol 5) ~ 08, The Last Testament (Vol 5) ~ 11--DhyanAntar 09:38, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
First talk often can be met on video as Mera Sapna Mera Bharat (मेरा सपना मेरा भारत).--DhyanAntar 12:09, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
