Talk:Sambodhi Ke Kshan (सम्बोधि के क्षण)
Current Understanding
| event | audio, OshoWorld |
audio, Osho.com |
2004 book ed. | Shailendra's PDF | Oshoganga (*1) | OshoWorld e-book | Dates & Places |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Sambodhi Ke Kshan ~ 01 | #1 | 1. मैं अकेला गाता रहूंगा | 1. मैं अकेला गाता रहूंगा Ahmedabad, 19 Aug 1969 |
1. मैं अकेला गाता रहूंगा | 1. मैं अकेला गाता रहूंगा Ahmedabad, 19 Aug 1969 |
1. मैं अकेला गाता रहूंगा (p.1-19) Ahmedabad, 19 Aug 1969 |
19 Aug 1969, Ahmedabad |
| Sambodhi Ke Kshan ~ 02 | #2 end can be incomplete |
2. मेरा दायित्व end can be incomplete |
2. मेरा दायित्व missing last 2 paragraphs Ahmedabad, 20 Aug 1969 |
2. मेरा दायित्व | 2. मेरा दायित्व missing last 2 paragraphs Ahmedabad, 20 Aug 1969 |
2. मेरा दायित्व (p.19-40) missing last 2 paragraphs Ahmedabad, 20 Aug 1969 |
20 Aug 1969, Ahmedabad |
| Sambodhi Ke Kshan ~ 03 (*2), (*3) | #3 (*2) missing at least first sentence |
3. असुरक्षा से संबोधि (*4) missing at least first sentence |
3. असुरक्षा से सम्बोधि Bombay, 14 Sep 1969 |
4. असुरक्षा से संबोधि | 4. असुरक्षा से संबोधि Bombay, 14 Sep 1969 |
3. असुरक्षा से संबोधि (p.40-77) Bombay, 14 Sep 1969 |
14 Sep 1969, Bombay (*3) |
| Sambodhi Ke Kshan ~ 04 | Nanak Dukhya Sab Sansar #8 end can be incomplete |
4. क्षण-क्षण जीना (*5) end can be incomplete |
5. क्षण-क्षण जीना | 5. क्षण-क्षण जीना | 1969 (*6) | ||
| Sambodhi Ke Kshan ~ 05 (*3), (*7) | #4 beginning and end incomplete |
5. मेरा अंतर-सहयोग का सत्य (*8) beginning and end incomplete |
5. मेरा अन्तर-सहयोग का सत्य end incomplete Bombay, 14 Sep 1969 |
6. मेरा अंतर-सहयोग का सत्य end incomplete |
6. मेरा अंतर-सहयोग का सत्य end incomplete Bombay, 14 Sep 1969 |
5. मेरा अंतर-सहयोग का सत्य (p.83-94) end incomplete Bombay, 14 Sep 1969 |
14 Sep 1969, Bombay (*3) |
| Sambodhi Ke Kshan ~ 06 | #5 missing first question itself; end is very incomplete (~7 pages of the PDF) |
6. असुरक्षा--प्रवाह--स्वीकार (*9) missing first question itself; end is very incomplete (~7 pages of the PDF) |
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3. असुरक्षा..प्रवाह..स्वीकार missing first question itself |
14 Dec 1969?, Bombay? (*12) | ||
| Jeevan Rahasya ~ 07 | Jevan Rahasya #8 | Jeevan Rahasya 7. पिछले जन्मों का स्मरण |
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Jeevan Rahasya 8. (no title) missing first question, the talk starts with a response to it |
12 Jun 1969, 9:30, Bhagwan Bhuvan, Masjid Bandar, Bombay | |
| Sahaj Mile Avinashi ~ 02 (*3) | Sahaj Mile Avinashi #2 intro: "an intimate talk given in Bombay, India" missing first question itself, the audio starts with response to it |
Sahaj Mile Avinashi 2. सृजन की शक्ति (first part of audio) (*10) missing first question itself, the audio starts with response to it |
4. मेरा विकल्प end incomplete Bombay, 14 Sep 1969 |
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4. मेरा विकल्प (p.77-83) end incomplete Bombay, 14 Sep 1969 |
14 Sep 1969, Bombay (*3) |
| Kaha Kahun Us Des Ki ~ 02 | Kaha Kahun Us Desh Ki #1 missing beginning |
Kaha Kahun Us Desh Ki 3. विचार और जागरण missing beginning |
6. मेरा विपरीत का सत्य (it looks complete and unedited) (end is not checked as some last pages are not available in google book) |
Kaha Kahun Us Des Ki 2. अनुभूति और अभिव्यक्ति missing first question itself, text starts with response Bombay, 15 Nov 1969 |
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15 Nov 1969, Bombay |
- Notes
- (*1) Cover of this book belongs to 2004ed. with 6 ch. and it does not match to its text with 8 chapters. They are different editions.
- (*2) This event has long duration: 2h 12min or 35 PDF pages. It looks solid. Just long talk. In OW audio found glued parts, each lasts a little less than 45 min.
- (*3) These 3 talks as stated in above sources are on one date. First talk of three is very long (more than 2 hours). Recording of last talk of three lasts 20 min and incomplete. It unclear how much it is incomplete and if it can be a part of other that day' events.
- Hindi series of talks with dates (source document) gives next info: Intimate & Informal talks, dated 14.09.69-15.09.69, 3 talks. Our 3 talks are intimate and belong to this description. So, three talks on 14 Sep (and other missing on next day?) or split among 14 and 15 ?
- (*4) It is #4 in Khajana collection as Shailendra's and Oshoganga's.
- (*5) It is #5 in Khajana collection as Shailendra's and Oshoganga's.
- (*6) Year stated on the basis that all other talks are from 1969.
- (*7) In last part of the talk Osho says: "Just now I went to a Vedanta conference in Amritsar." It is unclear what he mentions.
- (*8) It is #6 in Khajana collection as Shailendra's and Oshoganga's.
- (*9) It is #3 in Khajana collection as Shailendra's and Oshoganga's.
- (*10) It is Sahaj Mile Avinashi #2 in Khajana collection. This audio joint with next chapter-aduio and selling as one audio on osho.com.
- (*11) Text of the event is repeated twicely: ch.1, which seems unedited and incomplete in beginning, and as second part of ch.3, where text differs (is edited) from ch.1 version. Or vice versa: ch.1 is edited and second part of ch.3 is not??
- (*12) See Talk:Kaha Kahun Us Des Ki (कहा कहूं उस देस की), footnote (*9).
Deliberations
There are a variety of offerings of this book in the different formats, all with different results. One source, a blog, quotes from this book and dates it Sep 14, 1969 in Mumbai but this is suspect, since both Gyan Bhed and Neeten's Osho Source Book place Osho in Kashmir at that time. (See Talk:Mahaveer: Meri Drishti Mein (महावीर : मेरी दृष्टि में) for details.) OTOH the e-book dates no less than three of its chapters, one very long and two very short, to that very day in Mumbai. There may be an error somewhere. FWIW the Aug dates have been entered in the Timeline as such, with four other discourses dated only 1969, all provisionally.
Anyway, the various offerings, first the OW e-book, with dates and places and the page numbers where found, then a comparison:
- Ch.1 -- Ahmedabad 19 Aug 1969 (p 19)
- Ch.2 -- Ahmedabad 20 Aug 1969 (p 40)
- Ch.3 -- Bombay 14 Sep 1969 (p 77)
- Ch.4 -- Bombay 14 Sep 1969 (p 83)
- Ch.5 -- Bombay 14 Sep 1969 (p 94)
OW e-book:
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OW audiobook:
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O.com audiobook:
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Diamond hard copy
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Shailendra's e-book
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Transliteration
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It can be seen that the titles are somewhat varied, with eight different ones. But one consistent piece throughout is that the chapter / discourse entitled असुरक्षा से संबोधि is by far the longest in all of them. -- updated doofus-9 (talk) 00:23, 11 December 2014 (PST)
"Longest in all of them" refers to # of pages in e-book and hard copy and audio timings given by o-com.
Revisiting to align same-titled chapters for easier comparison in the table above, we can see a few things, leaving aside chapter numbers: There are at least two of each title except for Diamond's ch 6, giving each a certain solidity. The possibility of eight "conversations" mentioned in the article page seems not unrealistic, if titles are not just renaming or regrouping other titles, and the eight titles above may be sufficient.-- doofus-9 05:45, 19 March 2017 (UTC)
Hindi series of talks with dates (source document) supplies some info:
- "Informal Talks, 6 talks, 18.08.69-20.08.69". It seems that at least the 2 of them in Ahmedabad 19 & 20 Aug can be a part of these six. Btw, this list is accurate enough.
- Also "Intimate & Informal talks, 3 talks 14.09.69-15.09.69" can be ch 3-5 of the e-book in Bombay. This approximately confirms other sources (except for 15-vs-14 for the last one) for Kshan. The sources previously placing Osho in Kashmir on these dates for some R&R before the Mahaveer camp are now seen as wrong, especially given that even the conflict re difficult travel times to get there from Mumbai is resolved, by a letter to Kusum indicating he will be flying and she should meet him in Srinagar airport on 1 pm on the 17th. The 14-vs-15 for the last one (or two) still needs to be resolved.
--DhyanAntar 14:12, 2 June 2020 (UTC) / doofus-9 22:20, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
Now osho.com lists 6 talks only as audios and nothing in its library section.--DhyanAntar 03:42, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
Extracts from some chapters of Shailendra's PDF:
Ch.4: in one of questions Osho was talking about aimlessness.
Ch.5: "There was talk on aimlessness yesterday. He is right that aimlessness is a joyous path for the child, so will it not be fatal for the society?" (Reference to ch.4)
