Talk:Samyak Shiksha (सम्यक शिक्षा)

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Current Understanding

event audio,
Shailendra's PDF Oshoganga Other book editions Dates & Places
Samyak Shiksha ~ 01 Shiksha Aur Dharam #1 1. जीवन की दिशा 1. जीवन की दिशा 1. जीवन की दिशा late 1960s ?, place unknown
Samyak Shiksha ~ 02 Shiksha Aur Dharam #2 2. अकंप चित्तता 2. अकंप चित्तता 2. सभ्यता हमारी शिक्षा का फल
(this is incorrect title, which is title of ch.4)
8 Sep 1967 om**, University Club, Bombay
Samyak Shiksha ~ 03 Shiksha Aur Dharam #3 3. सच्चा शिक्षक 3. सच्चा शिक्षक 3. सच्चा शिक्षक 1 Feb 1969, Bombay
Samyak Shiksha ~ 04 (*1) Shiksha Aur Dharam #4 4. सभ्यता हमारी शिक्षा का फल 4. सभ्यता : हमारी शिक्षा का फल 4. सभ्यता हमारी शिक्षा का फल 18 Jan 1970, Law Commerce College, Bhavnagar
Samyak Shiksha ~ 05 Shiksha Aur Dharam #5
last 11 min of audio another event? (*2)
5. शिक्षा और विज्ञान
last 11 min of audio another event? (*2)
5. शिक्षा और विज्ञान 5. शिक्षा और विज्ञान 17 Apr 1972, Bombay
Samyak Shiksha ~ 06 Prem Hai Dwar Prabhu Ka #2 6. शिक्षा तनाव की नहीं, विश्राम की 6. यह अधूरी शिक्षा? 6. यह अधूरी शिक्षा? Prem Hai Dwar Prabhu Ka (प्रेम है द्वार प्रभु का), 1973 ed., ch.4
incomplete: missing last 2 paragraphs
21 Jan 1968, 10:00, Podar College, Bombay
Samyak Shiksha ~ 07 Prem Hai Dwar Prabhu Ka #3 7. सम्यक शिक्षा 7. सम्यक शिक्षा 7. सम्यक शिक्षा 22 Jan 1968 am, Bombay University, Bombay
Samyak Shiksha ~ 08 Prem Hai Dwar Prabhu Ka #4 8. प्रेम--अनुशासन--क्रांति 8. प्रेम--अनुशासन--क्रांति 8. प्रेम--अनुशासन--क्रांति 5 May 1968 om **, Nargol
Samyak Shiksha ~ 09 9. "Audio Not Available" 9. शिक्षाः महत्वाकांक्षा और युवा पीढ़ी का विद्रोह 9. शिक्षाः महत्वाकांक्षा और युवा पीढ़ी का विद्रोह Prem Hai Dwar Prabhu Ka (प्रेम है द्वार प्रभु का), 1973 ed., ch.5 <Nov 1969 (*3)
(*1) This can be 1 of 3 mentioned as "Shiksha Kya Hai Marg?", 17-19 Jan 1970, Bhavnagar, see Talk:Hindi series of talks with dates (source document).
(*2) Last 11 min of audio contains at least one question and answer in English. It is unlear if it is part of main talk or another.
(*3) Taruna Vidroha (તરુણ વિદ્રોહ), Gujarati booklet translation of ch.9, was published in Nov 1969. So original Hindi talk ~ 9 must be given way before that date.


Samyak Shiksha 1-9 D&P.jpg

Dates and Places info is in from Jagdish, comments below.

1. info n/a (Shiksha Uchchatar Mulya)
2. Sep 8 1967 University Club, Bombay (Shiksha Aur Dharm)
3. Feb 1 1969 Bombay (talk to teachers re students and teachers)
4. Jan 18 1970 Law Commerce College, Bhavnagar (Shiksha Aur Jeevan / Aaj Ki Shiksha)
5. Apr 17 1972 interview with Kanti Bhatt, Bombay (spiritual / social education)
6. Jan 21 1968 Podar College, Bombay (talk to teachers, Prem Ki Shiksha)
7. Jan 22 1968 Bombay University, Bombay (talk to students)
8. May 5 1968 Nargol (talk with children)
9. info n/a

Cross-referencing this with Timeline info, we find some interesting things:

1. All the 1968 dates are already entered, #6 as Samyak Shiksha, as this chapter was used in an early translation and documented in the CD-ROM. The other two are entered as Prem Hai Dwar Prabhu Ka (प्रेम है द्वार प्रभु का) events, though with a Q-Mark.jpg. Jagdish has supplied D&P info for that book too but it doesn't fit well there and may either be in error or these three chapters (#2-4 there) are identical with #6-8 here. In any case, the dates, locations and themes are identical, so take yer pick. As Samyak is explicitly education-themed, there is a natural inclination to let it take precedence.

A comparison of text or audio between these two series should reveal definitively what is what in this regard. Meanwhile, accessible right away are audio lengths per the event pages, and they already make a strong case for these three chapters / talks being identical. The close resemblance of the overall pattern is impressive, with the small differences easily explained by editing and marketing vagaries :
Samyak Shiksha, #6: 49 min, vs 47 for Prem Hai Dwar Prabhu Ka, #2
Samyak Shiksha, #7: 55 min, vs 54 for Prem Hai Dwar Prabhu Ka, #3
Samyak Shiksha, #8: 32 min, vs 31 for Prem Hai Dwar Prabhu Ka, #4
Finally, we can look at what Shailendra has on these two series over at Shifting content in Hindi books (source document). The info there adds more depth to our developing picture here. He does not link Samyak and PHDPK but he has found other chapters in PHDPK which appear to be duplicates of discourses in other scattered books, specifically ch 3, 5, 6 and 7, making that book less than a unified whole. More on that in PHDPK's talk page. Here it can now be said with reasonable confidence that these three discourses can be thought of as "belonging" to Samyak.
Except -- ha ha! -- possibly the last one, Samyak #8 / PHDPK #4, can be thought of as more naturally belonging to PHDPK, as it is not explicitly education-themed, a short talk given to some children at Nargol, but for now it can remain here. -- doofus-9 18:04, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

2. For #2 and 3, there are other talks on those dates but in Bombay and not necessarily conflicting or duplicating. Similarly, for #4, Osho is already in Bhavnagar and for #5 in Bombay. Three of these talks have only one other talk on their dates, #3 has two, all should be able to fit happily.

And regarding the Hindi themes in parentheses, none resemble titles in the audio TOC. The first just means "the value of higher education" and has no resonance with other known material. Shiksha Aur Dharm is both the title of a mysterious little-known series and the title of the third chapter of Shiksha Mein Kranti (शिक्षा में क्रांति), so there may be something there. The Hindi title of #4 has no resonance, nor does #6, save with the above-mentioned PHDPK #2. -- doofus-9 01:24, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

The one entry we find for Samyak in "Shifting content" relates to our missing ch 9. There it is said to be incomplete but also, mysteriously, equivalent to ch 7. More info needed! -- doofus-9 18:04, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

At least Jagdish's titles for ch.1-2, 6 are alt-titles. It consulted with text of the talks.--DhyanAntar 07:09, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Last check of sources (their contents) showed that OW audios Prem Hai Dwar Prabhu Ka #2-4 are Samyak Shiksha #6-8 here. Although one of them published in hardcopy version we chose to use Samyak title for series as it related with theme of talks.

Shiksha Aur Dharm is series of 5 talks which are first five talk of this series. I think this series available only on OshoWorld as Shiksha Aur Dharam.

Checked text of Samyak with Shiksha Mein Kranti: no relation found. --DhyanAntar 10:43, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

Extracts from text (source: Shailendra's PDF):

Ch.1: talk to students. In the end: "I have said these little things, these things are incomplete, I have only been able to say that education has not yet found a way to play the harp of life, but if this thing too could have come to your mind, then maybe it will create thinking Ho. Evening what I will talk, had to do it today in this regard, I think what is the science of playing the harp of life. So I will request the students to connect the evening talk with the morning talk, maybe a thought may arise in their mind, which becomes the path." (Reference to ?)

Ch.4: last talk in a place. Ends by "I said these two small sutras, and there will be many sutras, they will talk if I come again. Heard these two sutras with so much peace and love, I am very grateful to them. And finally I bow to the divine sitting inside everyone. Accept my greetings."

Ch.5: q/a

Ch.6: last talk in a place. In the end: "I am not disappointed. If disappointed, then do not say this to you. I say this to teachers in the hope that they will think. They have great power in their hands. Not today, tomorrow the world will hold them responsible if something goes wrong. It is advisable to think before that. If I ever come back to you again, I will be able to talk to you about how to teach love. Today, if I can get your attention on this side, then I will understand my point. So much attention can be drawn that a temple can be built by the building of education based on wisdom, not a temple. If you want to build a temple of life, then you have to base it on love, and up to fourteen years of childhood is a wonderful opportunity for the development of love..."
Then Bharat Ka Bhavishya ~ 15 was before this event? (Place is Shanmukhananda Hall, Bombay.)

Ch.8: q/a

--DhyanAntar 07:09, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

6th event has incorrect place in Timeline: "Shanmukhananda Hall, Podar College, Bombay". "Shanmukhananda Hall" and "Podar College" are different places as google maps says. Will correct it.--DhyanAntar 08:09, 7 September 2020 (UTC)