Talk:Udaipur Camp May 1965

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A rough outline of the nine talks, based on info given in the typed transcripts:

1. 6 May 1965 pm (ratri), a Q&A talk
2. 7 May 1965 am (8:00 am)
3. 7 May 1965 (no further time info), Q&A
4. 8 May 1965 (aparaanh, "by day"), Q&A
5. 8 May 1965 pm (ratri, 8:30 pm)
6. 9 May 1965 am (8:00 am)
7. 9 May 1965 (?), "9-5-65" is crossed out, as is "prashnottar", Q&A, as are the small headers indicating individual questions and answers. More research needed!
8. 9 May 1965 pm (ratri)
9. 10 May 1965 (no further time info, but the word "samaadhaan", "solution" or "resolution", appears after the date.

None of the talks seem to have titles.

What are the sources regarding this mysterious, previously unknown camp? The wiki has come into the possession of pdf's of typed transcripts of all the above nine discourses. "Friends in Pune" have confirmed their authenticity, and Osho himself has pointed in that direction with mentions in a couple of letters, details below. It should also be observed that the typing style is not one that one might find today. Many ligatures are present that are simply unavailable with current fonts, having been eliminated in Unicode. This testifies to a certain vintage.

Regarding the letters, first, in a Letter written on 24 Apr 1965 om to Sohan, Osho asks in the PS that she and her husband Manik meet him at Udaipur station at 9 am on May 6, giving them also a contact address in Udaipur of his presumed host Shri Hiralal Ji Kothari. This letter is published in Prem Ke Phool (प्रेम के फूल) as letter #11, though it leaves out the PS. The wiki has images of both sides of that letter.

We do not have an image of the original second letter, just a tantalizing reference. It was written on May 9, also to Sohan, and also published in Prem Ke Phool, as #126. The first distinctive sentence runs, "It was just this time of night, two days ago, that I left you at Chittor". Now Chittor(garh) is a good two-hour drive from Udaipur, but it does at least put him in the general area. Whether the camp is actually at Chittor, with "Udaipur" a kind of "nearest easily recognizable big city" handy reference point, or there was actual back-and-forthing during the camp remains to be sorted out. There's always something. -- doofus-9 09:39, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

This Letter written on 1 Apr 1965 am gives dates 7-10 May for the camp. It seems first talk-inauguration has not been included to the period, as often (or maybe always?) we can notice.--DhyanAntar 07:18, 26 July 2020 (UTC)


There is a strong inference available regarding this Chittor issue, ie the part it plays in the camp, in the time indications given for talks #3 and 4: Five of the talks have explicit times given, am or pm. The four that don't are #3, 4, 7 and 9. #7 is in a class by itself, with info given but then crossed out, and #9 also has its own peculiarities. Perhaps a Hindi helper can decode that.

But #3 and 4 can be thought of as a related pair, in that they are next to each other in the sequence and they come before (likely) and after a known special event, the one in Chittor Osho mentions in his letter. Considered together, and with their time indication anomalies, they point to something. #3 is the only one with no time indication. And the indication for #4, "aparaanh", for which G**gle Translate offers only one meaning, "by day", has never been seen before in all the time indications for Osho's talks done up till now.

Why this highly unusual time indication? I submit it is because Osho has been up very late seeing Sohan off in Chittor, or perhaps staying there overnight, and #4 is starting much later the next day than the usual am, too late in fact for that time-stamp, and likely too early for dopahar, om.

And #3 can be carried along with this line of reasoning by the same event in Chittor. It is likely too early for the usual pm. And together with #4, they point strongly to the likelihood that the whole camp is NOT in Chittor but in good old Udaipur, where Osho has conducted numerous other camps, and where there is even a host mentioned in the first letter.

None of this is solid incontrovertible proof or even evidence but it lays the groundwork for a provisional designation of Udaipur as the location for this camp, with the burden of proof falling on Chittor as a plausible alternative. And perhaps a real Hindi speaker can find some clues in the discourses' texts as well to point one way or another. -- doofus-9 22:42, 29 February 2020 (UTC)