The Eternal Quest ~ 11

event type	discourse
date & time	1967 ~ 1972
location	unknown
language	English
audio	Available, duration 0h 36min. Quality: very inferior, especially the end. Questions barely audible. Seems incomplete (under revision).
online audio	purchase from Osho.com
video	Not available
online video
see also	timeline : Osho Timeline ~ year unknown first edition : The Eternal Quest (1980) other editions, translations and links
online text	find the PDF of this discourse
shorttitle	QUEST11

notes

A unique event. Osho is being hotly debated by people of the Hare Krishna movement.

See Early Talks ~ 07: the relation with that discourse should be researched.

synopsis

Reader of the questions: two of the people of the Hare Krishna movement.

The CD-ROM version appered shortened and incomplete, so we used a transcript of the audio for below questions.

Question 1

...to introduce us: this is Chidananda Das Brahmachari, this is Dhulala Das Adhikari, Indra Das Brahmachari, and I am (inaudible) Nanda Das Brahmachari. We are disciples of His Divine Grace, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. All of us were born within the borders of United States and we became his disciples in the United States in the past two-four years ago, we were initiated by him. Shri Agrawal extended an invitation to us to come here. And we are not in knowledge what you might wish to do, so we are leaving the meeting up to you, and whatever you propose we will do it. Hare Krishna!

Question 2

I can pose one question. I would like to know, can you describe to me what is your conception of the absolute truth?

Question 3

I see. What do you mean by "me" and "you"?

Question 4

What is your attitude towards the Vedic religion, the Vedanta Sutra?

Question 5

What is the purpose of these literatures if not to discuss the nature of the absolute truth?

Question 6

The absolute truth then is beyond conceptualizing, then how is it that these literatures such as (the) Vedanta Sutra and (the) Bhagavad Gita present description and definition of the absolute truth?

Question 7

Deny what?

Question 8

Veda means knowledge. Veda means all-knowing.

Question 9

No, just one moment, I did not say anything about my conceptions. I said I'm thinking that the truth should correspond with the scriptural conceptions which are not my conceptions.

Question 10

Really? I have some verses which conflict with that. I would just like to read them. This is (the) Bhagavad Gita, Chapter 7, Verse 7. Lord Krishna speaking to Arjuna: "O conqueror of wealth, Dhananjaya, there is no truth superior to me. Everything rests upon me as pearls are strung on a thread." And here he is speaking of himself subjectively.

Then in the eighth chapter he is speaking of himself objectively. He says: "Think of the supreme person as one who knows everything; who is the oldest, who is the controller, who is smaller than the smallest, the maintainer of everything beyond any material conception, inconceivable and always a person. He is luminous like the sun, beyond this material nature, transcendental."

Now these verses in (the) Bhagavad Gita are just, uh, Lord Krishna, who is a person who is standing before Arjuna, speaking to Arjuna, and saying that "Actually I am the absolute truth and there is no truth superior to me and that everything is under my control and that I am a person." You see? And these are the statements of the Bhagavad Gita, which is saying that we can describe what is the absolute truth... or that the absolute truth is describing himself.

Question 11

I am not, I'm not saying "person." That inconceivable lord is revealing knowledge to us and he is saying, "I am a person."

Question 12

But he is not saying, "I mean something else."

Question 13

Lord Krishna is not speaking in (the) Bhagavad Gita?

Question 14

So then what do you do?

Question 15

But even a child can know that he has boundaries, so what is the purpose?

Question 16

But we all experience boundaries every day...

Question 17

That is not possible.

Question 18

Actually everything you are saying is based on your authority. You are speaking your authority on this matter.

Question 19

Try it, yes, alright, so try and understand like this: that anything we can say would be based on the authority of these real scriptures.

Question 20

I just want to submit then, that since you do not accept these revealed scriptures yourself, you say that they are trying to define something which is undefineable The scripture has a different opinion. I will just read it. This is in the, um... sixteen thousand (inaudible). This is just for the presentation at the present moment. Lord Krishna says: "Anyone, therefore, who acts immediately without caring for the regulations of the scriptures can never have perfection in his life, nor happiness nor the supreme destination." He says: "One should understand what is duty and what is not duty by the regulations of the scriptures... and knowing such rules and regulations one should act so that he may gradually be elevated." So he is saying that the absolute truth is inconceivable to us in our present conditioned state. And he is also saying that in our present conditioned state... if we will take action according to his instructions we will gradually be elevated to the point where we can become conscious of the absolute truth by following the regulations of the scriptures.

Question 21

Krishna says "maam"...

Question 22

But he doesn't say that.

Question 23

If I say, if I say "Hand me the microphone, give the microphone to me," and you take the microphone and point it behind me... then what is the point of my saying, "Give it to me"? Lord Krishna is standing before Arjuna, he is speaking to Arjuna: "Just try and save me and I will elevate you..."

Question 24

And you are saying Krishna's body is spiritual?

Question 25

We do not say Krishna's body is spiritual...

Question 26

In here it says that Krishna's body is spiritual, transcendental.

Question 27

He says: "Although I am unborn and my transcendental body never deteriorates and although I am the lord of all sentient beings I still appear in every millennium in my original, transcendental form." My original transcendental form! He says in the seventh chapter of (the) Bhagavad Gita that...

Question 28

How to understand the difference between saguna and nirguna? What is the meaning of the word nirguna. Krishna's uses the word nirguna...

Question 29

This is not mechanical. This is simply meaning your...

Question 30

But I have understood it. I have understood it and I can paraphrase it...

Question 31

But it is better to use a direct quotation than to paraphrase. I have not memorized it you see, but I can read it and I can understand what it means and simply I am presenting this authority in the face of your authority and to see that whether or not you can explain these slokas in such a way...

"All states of being, be they of goodness, passion or ignorance, are manifested by my energy. I am in one sense everything, but I am independent. I am not under modes of this material nature." Lord Krishna is saying he is not under the mode of this material nature, he is not part of this material world. He says in the fourth chapter his body is transcendental and that it never deteriorates so that he descends on a material planet but then he is always transcendental to this material nature. Shripad Shankarachraya acknowleged that narayana existed before the material creation. And Shripad Shankaracharya's last words to his disciples: "Bhaj Govindam, Bhaj Govindam, Bhaj Govindam..."

Question 32

He said, "Just worship Govinda." He said, "You rascals! Just worship Govinda, just worship Govinda, just worship Govinda, because all your nonsense, mental speculation will not help you one minute at the time of your death. You may carry all..."

Question 33

We are speaking of conditioned souls, because I think, er...

Question 34

It is this illusion in which we are entangled. Therefore we are looking for that knowledge which will carry us beyond this illusion so that at the time of death we will have something, have developed something, which will free us from the illusion of death and rebirth, so that we can go beyond this repetition of birth and death.

Question 35

So, Shripad Shankaracharya is recommending you simply worship Govinda and then you will transcend this material nature. He says so long as you concern yourself with this, er...

Question 36

You cannot transcend by knowledge, but if you can receive such knowledge that you can act upon it, and you can live that knowledge, and you can put that knowledge into effect every moment...

Question 37

Lord Krishna says he is the end of all knowledge. He says "By all the Vedas..."

Question 38

You are his part and parcel.

Question 39

What? So long as you reject that fact...

Question 40

He says that "When you have thus known the truth, you will know that all human beings are my parts and parcels. Even if you are considered to be the most sinful of all sinners, when you are situated in the boat of transcendental knowledge you will be able to cross over the ocean of miseries."

Question 41

This is that knowledge by which you can cross over this illusion of the material nature.

Question 42

There is no suffering? There is no misery?

Question 43

It may be true that I am dreaming that a tiger is eating me and it is a dream and actually there is no tiger eating me. That may be very true. But as I am dreaming I am suffering intense misery... it is causing me very much suffering.

Question 44

The reason I can dream of a tiger is because somewhere there is a real tiger, and my image of the tiger is only the perverted reflection of that real tiger. What we call knowledge in this material world is not knowledge; it is illusion, but the reason we have the conception of knowledge is because there is real knowledge. That real knowledge is in the spiritual reality from which we have fallen and until we again situate ourselves in our eternal position, eternal reality, then we will remain in this illusion condition. And even though we are not actually suffering, by association with this illusory energy, we suffer.

(source: a transcript)

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