The Last Testament (Vol 1) ~ 04

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event type interview
date & time 21 Jul 1985 pm
location Jesus Grove, Rajneeshpuram
language English
audio Available, duration 0h 54min. Quality: good.
Live music after the interview.
online audio
video Available, duration 1h 10min. Quality: good.
online video
see also
online text find the PDF of this discourse
shorttitle LAST104
Most of the 166 interviews Osho gave during the Ranch era and World Tour (see The Last Testament (series)) have never been published in book form. They have been published on the CD-ROM though; there they appear under the titles The Last Testament (Vol 1) to (Vol 6).
CD-ROM on this chapter: This discourse is published in The Last Testament, Vol 1, chapter 13. See The Last Testament, Vol 1#Correspondence between this Book and the CD-ROM.
Clips from this interview have been used in the film The Last Testament - Interviews with World Media (1985).
Interview. Announcements by Ma Prem Savita : (name inaudible)
CD-ROM on this chapter: Jeff McMullen, 60 Minutes, Australia.
The Man of Truth, ch.2 on this chapter: Jeff McMullen, 60 Minutes, Channel 9, Australia.
Question 1
Bhagwan, of the many extraordinary things that you say, the one on which I would never debate you is that you are an ordinary man. How ordinary a man are you?
Question 2
Are you the new man that you say the world needs?
Question 3
Do you put yourself on a plane with other great men, Jesus, Buddha, Krishna?
Question 4
Are you a God?
Question 5
Was Einstein retarded? He believed in a God.
Question 6
Edited excerpt: 10min 19sec, Questions 6-10, a part of q.34, q.35-38 **
Let me try you on some other not so ordinary men. If I give you a name, perhaps you could give me one of your words of wisdom for each of these people: Mahatma gandhi.
Question 7
Adolf Hitler.
Question 8
Pope Paul.
Question 9
Mother teresa.
Question 10
Your followers laugh and yet, with that kind of very unsettling raw statement that you make, you clearly disturb people, who see that sort of statement as profane.
Question 11
How would you feel if Hells Angels, a motorbike gang -- leather jackets, helmets, a terror gang -- how would you feel if the Hells Angels rode into Rajneeshpuram and disturbed your tranquil oasis?
Question 12
Then, Bhagwan, why the armed guards and the perimeter around your existence here? Surely not anybody can come?
Question 13
Hollywood isn't easy....
You seem very fond of the Wild west, here in America. Do you have an equal affection for the Wild west of Western Australia? Do you have any intentions of going there and taking your followers there?
Question 14
You do love this theater, you said that. You laughed yesterday... It is a circus. But in another moment will you tire of this circus, the trappings?
Question 15
This is Hollywood, this is film as distinct from mere television, mere videotape. But the final look -- you talk of beauty and goodness -- the beauty of the film is still the essence, I think, which is why we take a little more time. But when we get there it is worth it.
Question 16
You sound like you will not go back to India. Even if the madness were to change, that doesn't seem to be a place you would be drawn to again?
Question 17
... Thank you for sharing this with us. You have so many Australians here already, what do you think of us?
Question 18
Did you follow others, as others now follow you?
Question 19
Well, I think I am just a fellow traveler too. I am an ordinary man and I am an ordinary storyteller. When I ask about Australians and you say we are open... I think we are open.
When Sheela came to Australia, she has learned your skill -- for how to unsettle people, she has made people burn. Is that really necessary? I mean, what do you win with that? Wouldn't you have more support really to show...?
Question 20
You do seem to like to shake the rich most. Maybe it is the jingle of the coins in the pocket you like to shake loose.
Question 21
And the black man? There are few blacks here.
Question 22
It is very peaceful. I say that to you, that any visitor here finds it peaceful.
One of the rumors about the place is about that side of free love. If there is this much free love here, why the rubber gloves in the hotel rooms? What has changed?
Question 23
You are more certain about some of these things than scientists that I have talked to. What is it? How does an ordinary man become a guru, Bhagwan, with such clarity and certainty about these things?
Question 24
The dam that you have here is named after Gurdjieff. This is not the question for the camera, but I am curious about it. He was also a fellow traveler on the road. Was he to you at least, if not an inspiration, was he a remarkable man?
Question 25
He moved, whereas you sit still. Do you think one is superior? He seems to be a traveler; whereas you are traveling here, but you physically rest anywhere. It seems not even very important to you where you are in that sense. Do you think one is a superior choice to the other, or...?
Question 26
Well, without giving you the wit and wisdom of yet another ordinary man, one thing might be useful maybe more to the Rajneeshees, but I think it is a little silly, the toy soldiers that you have here. I know that they are doing it out of love for you, but it would seem to me out of kilter with the serenity of the place, that probably the more peaceful side of what you do here in this oasis in the desert is enough defense without the Wild west trappings. I mean that seems to me what governments and armies do, and I don't really think that the Rajneeshees need to be the same as the rest.
Question 27
(You have been attacked) here though, or in India?
Question 28
It doesn't upset you?
Question 29
Would you like me to pick up on where we were talking?
Question 30
You said that Immanuel Kant couldn't choose...
... Between one very simple matter of love. Could I interject and ask you something on that...?
Question 31
The same question then, that Immanuel Kant had to answer, the yes or no about love. Are you in love with Sheela? Is she your...?
Question 32
If Sheela is that special, is Sheela the power behind the throne? Is she the heir apparent to your spiritual kingdom?
Question 33
It is a kingdom with more Rolls Royces than any other city in the world.
Question 34
It doesn't feel like Jonestown to us.
Question 35
Not the logical conclusion of the power of one man over a group of people?
Question 36
You have a wonderful sense of humor. And where did you learn such timing?
Question 37
Did you love those contradictions when you were a debater many years ago?
Question 38
Would you be happy then, if what you inspired out of this brief part of a very long journey, if some of these people who now follow you in fact wandered off to some other sphere of discovering what is to them, themselves?


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