The Last Testament (Vol 3) ~ 04

event type	interview
date & time	25 Sep 1985 pm
location	Sanai Grove, Rajneeshpuram
language	English
audio	Available, duration 2h 28min. Quality: good. Live music after the interview.
online audio	free download from OshoWorld
video	Available, duration 2h 42min. Quality: good. Incomplete: between video part 1 and 2 some words missing (under revision). Lots of music and dancing, 12 minutes before, 4 minutes after the interview.
online video	Edited excerpt: The Role of Meditation (5min 32sec, question 61) **
see also	timeline : Osho Timeline 1985 first edition : The Last Testament (Vol 3) (1994 on CD-ROM) other editions, translations and links
online text	find the PDF of this discourse
shorttitle	LAST304

notes

synopsis

Interview. Announcements by Ma Prem Hasya : George Lurie from USA Today again; Jeannie Senior of The Oregonian; Bill Graves from The Bend (inaudible).

CD-ROM on this chapter: Interviews with: George Lurie, USA Today (questions 1-13); Jeannie Senior, The Oregonian, Portland (q.14-23); Bill Graves, The Bend Bulletin, Bend, Oregon (q.24-78).

Question 1 : George Lurie, USA Today

I'd appreciate brief answers, and I'll try to keep my questions precise. Last night you spoke of hijackings and other extreme measures. Could a mass action like the one that occurred in Jonestown could ever occur here at Rajneeshpuram.

Question 2

I'd like to know how the AIDS epidemic has caused you to reevaluate your attitude towards sex between your followers.

Question 3

I'd like to know what your current immigration status is.

Question 4

You've said in the past that you'd prefer assassination to a natural death. Do you anticipate assassination?

Question 5

Bhagwan, since the commune appears to function both spiritually and financially around you, after you're gone what will become of Rajneeshpuram and your followers?

Question 6

I'd like to know where you envision yourself and this commune ten years from now.

Question 7

Do you travel much outside the commune aside from your drives?

Question 8

Between your collection -- the commune's collection -- of Rolls Royces and its quite extensive bus system, your elegant clothes and the sannyasins' simple red clothes, even your differing statements to your followers and the press from day to day, there seem to be so many stark contrasts here. I get the feeling that it's intentional. Is that the case?

Question 9

Will you have anything to do with appointing or choosing someone to succeed you?

Question 10

When I was here last week I recall you saying during one of your addresses to the commune members that you purposefully chose Sheela and willingly allowed her to continue what you called her reign of terror in order to give your followers what you referred to as a taste of fascism. Were you serious or was this a joke?

Question 11

Does that mean, then, that generally you did know of some of the things that Sheela must be doing?

Question 12

And yet you say you stopped it. My impression is that Sheela left without you knowing and on her own accord.

Question 13

Whether you knew specifically or not, when you answered my original question that you did appoint her in order to give your followers a taste of fascism, had she succeeded in poisoning the water system of the Dalles as you allege she wanted to, or having killed more than the single individual that you allege she killed, would not part of that responsibility be on your shoulders?

Question 14 : Jeannie Senior, The Oregonian, Portland

You said was that you hadn't been invited to talk to the police yet and you advised your sannyasins not to talk to the police until you had talked to the police. And you set some conditions under which you wanted to talk to the police. You said you wanted to have the press present and have a video crew there and an audio crew there.

Are you going to maintain that stand? The police don't traditionally do this when they're interviewing a witness. Are you asking for special treatment?

Question 15

So that's what you did last night, you mean? You gave the interview to the press conference?

Question 16

So you had an agreement with them that you would meet with them? You could have your crew videotape the interview?

Question 17

Things are at rather an impasse as far as your interview?

Question 18

The mass media have been full of allegations between you and Sheela. At present you're embarked on a real war of words, you and Sheela. Who you think's going to win.

Question 19

Similarly, you seem to be involved in a war of words with the attorney general of Oregon. I wonder who you think's going to win that one.

Question 20

One of the things that's being said in the press is that this entire thing that's happened since last Saturday night is a carefully orchestrated scheme that's going to culminate in you also leaving Oregon. Do you want to comment on that?

Question 21

And then you're going to Germany, right?

Question 22

The Oregonian received information today that the police investigators who've been working here at the Ranch for the last few days have been victims of bugging and wiretapping. Are you aware of that?

Question 23

How would you characterize Sheela and the corporate leaders of Rajneeshpuram who left, and how would you characterize Hasya and the new corporate leaders at Rajneeshpuram? One word for each.

Question 24 : Bill Graves, The Bend Bulletin, Bend, Oregon

Are you beginning to regret having invited the police in for this investigation?

Question 25

So how are you recommending your disciples respond to this?

Question 26

What is your response to Governor Vic Atiyeh's criticism of your not cooperating today?

Question 27

He said that his patience was growing thin with your refusal to cooperate.

Question 28

Is there a danger that these statements that Sheela's been making in the Stern magazine will cause any damage to your image within the Rajneeshee movement around the world?

Question 29

Sheela said that she was draining community resources to keep you supplied with jeweled watches and Rolls Royces. Did you ever tell Sheela that you would die if you did not get a $2.5 million diamond watch or that you would commit suicide if you did not get another Rolls Royce?

Question 30

You have said that what happens in this commune is really none of no concern to you, that you're not a Rajneeshee. But in the last week and a half, you seem to have expressed a lot of concern about what's going on here. I'm just wondering if you're thinking about taking a more active role in this community or becoming a Rajneeshee....

Question 31

About a month ago you said of Sheela, "I have been sharpening her like a sword. I told her to go out and cut as many heads as possible." You were defending her then, and the abrasive way that she represented this movement to the outside world. Have you changed your position? And were you using her...?

Question 32

I've heard that you have called yourself a great con man. How Sheela was able to con you without your knowing.

Question 33

Did the share-a-home program and Sheela's growing addiction to power have anything to do with your ending your period of silence? Was there any relationship between Sheela's growing power and celebrity and your coming out of silence and beginning to speak again?

Question 34

Was there an internal power struggle going on here prior to the day Sheela left?

Question 35

Do you know anything about a faction that press reports have called the beverly hills money crowd here in the commune? They say that Hasya and John and David and Kavisha and Anuradha -- the president of the commune -- are part of a close-knit group that ran a mansion in hollywood for the movement for a while. Is this a close-knit group that's taken power?

Question 36

How has power been diffused with this change? How are you going to assure that this doesn't ever happen again?

Question 37

Is there a danger for a person in your position of getting in a cocoon, isolated from the world?

Question 38

So are you saying that this is not a religion?

Question 39

When are you going to allow the sannyasins to stop wearing red and their malas, and why do they wear them in the first place?

Question 40

Are you expecting to leave soon?

Question 41

The people who live in Rajneesh or Antelope have expressed a lot of interest in your spirit of cooperation or reconciliation. But they say that they need to see that town disincorporated, to believe you are sincere. How do you feel about that?

Question 42

Most people say there's no way they can buy that two million dollars worth of housing you have there.

Question 43

Have you heard of any evidence that suggests that any of this wiretapping or these other crimes occurred in Antelope?

Question 44

Do you believe you are the reincarnation of a mystic who lived seven hundred years ago?

Question 45

How do you know that?

Question 46

I've heard that you were, as a boy, fascinated with death. Why did death hold so much charm for you?

Question 47

Who do you go to for advice?

Question 48

Do you ever get together with some of your followers and just sit around and have some wine and talk?

Question 49

How do you spend your days?

Question 50

Why did you stop reading in 1980 and how do you stay informed on world events? I've heard that you enjoy movies. Is that true?

Question 51

Do you ever feel like getting into your Rolls Royce and just cruising out across the countryside on your own?

Question 52

Have you ever thought about just leaving the commune altogether and just going down to California or somewhere...?

Question 53

Who do you admire in this country?

Question 54

Is there anybody in the world that you have great admiration for?

Question 55

What does it mean to be enlightened? Do you lose some of your normal human emotions?

Question 56

How is your health?

Question 57

I've heard a lot of your discourses, themes of individuality, finding your own path, finding God in nature, capitalism. And these are themes that are as American as Walt Whitman, Mark Twain, Henry Thoreau. And my question is, how did an Indian guru become so American, and does this explain why so many Americans have followed you?

Question 58

In the Goose is out, your book, you say, "And to disappear into the whole is the only thing of any worth."

You are a man with a very big ego. I see your picture everywhere, around all your sannyasins' neck. And you certainly haven't disappeared. Probably most people in the United States know who you are. So how do you explain this apparent contradiction?

Question 59

How could one follow your teaching in any case and find his own path, and yet come here and live in a commune and walk this collective path? That again to me seems like a contradiction.

Question 60

Do you believe that human consciousness survives death? Is there a soul?

Question 61

Edited excerpt: 5min 32sec, question 61 **

What role does meditation play in this movement?

Question 62

Have any of your disciples become enlightened? Have they reached that step yet?

Question 63

I know that you developed dynamic meditation. I'm just curious if you've ever tried it?

Question 64

How does your teachings compare with those of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, transcendental meditation?

Question 65

In come follow me you say that Christ is the very principle of religion, in Christ all the aspirations of humanity are fulfilled. But last month you called Christ a crackpot. You seem to have changed your view of him.

Question 66

The Soviets have said, at least in one article I read, that you work for the CIA and the White house. And I'm just curious how your movement functions behind the iron curtain. And whether there's anything going on in this commune or in other parts of the world to get the message into communist countries.

Question 67

This is in the... Is this in the Soviet Union?

Question 68

How many sannyasins do you have in the world now?

Question 69

Is the movement growing?

Question 70

You have said in the past that you would like to build a city of one hundred thousand sannyasins here.

Question 71

Do you believe the state will ever allow you to do that?

Question 72

So you're confident that this city will endure all of this and flourish?

Question 73

Was it your decision to come to the United States in the first place back in 1981?

Question 74

Is there room in this community for non-sannyasins or others from the outside to live or invest here?

Question 75

Have you any interest in dialogue with other religious leaders?

Question 76

In the Goose is out you write, quote, "Remember the fundamental law of all revolution. When the revolution comes, things will be different -- not better, just different." If you look at what's happened here in this community in the last week as a revolution, are things better or different?

Question 77

They're better. Why?

Question 78

Isn't the wisdom you express essentially that that Western civilization has sort of sprung from: that of socrates, his basic dictum, "know yourself" or "know thyself"? Isn't that...?

(source:CD-ROM)

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