The Last Testament (Vol 3) ~ 08

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event type interview
date & time 29 Sep 1985 pm
location Sanai Grove, Rajneeshpuram
language English
audio Available, duration 1h 52min. Quality: good.
Live music after the interview.
online audio
video Available, duration 1h 58min. Quality: good.
online video
see also
online text find the PDF of this discourse
shorttitle LAST308
Interview. Announcements by unidentified man : Sandy Hill from (inaudible) Television (tonight?); Bill Harlan of the Denver Post Newspaper.
CD-ROM on this chapter: Interview with Sandy Hill, America Show, Paramount TV (questions 1-55); and the Denver Post, Denver, Co (q.56-92).
Question 1 : Sandy Hill, America Show, Paramount TV
Hello, Bhagwan. I understand you'd like to know just a little bit about this broadcast. It's so new that a lot of people aren't quite sure. But it's now syndicated across the country. It's a joint project between both Paramount and CBS. You've grown weary of us already?
Question 2
So why do you keep putting up with us?
Question 3
You have a story to tell, which is why you do.
Question 4
You do seem very serene, though, and very happy for a man who is in effect ending a religion which has been created totally around him.
Question 5
But do not the people who have come here and who surround you and who are devoted to you believe in you and your...?
Question 6
But they do follow you and follow your teachings.
Question 7
They don't believe in what you say?
Question 8
Why have you chosen at this point to end this belief, this religion, of Rajneeshism?
Question 9
You chose to cut yourself off.
Question 10
But it's excerpts of speeches or teachings that you have made, is that accurate?
Question 11
But you have said that Christianity failed but that Rajneeshism was the first religion. And now it seems that it, too, has failed.
Question 12
She corrupted your ideas?
Question 13
And removing the religion will undo it?
Question 14
Will there be substantial changes here as a result of it? Or is this merely a semantics game too? As you said, language is a problem.
Question 15
Do you really feel comfortable with this temperature?
Question 16
Is anyone from the outside going to be able to see any changes here? Is there something tangible about this?
Question 17
Perceptible to an outsider?
Question 18
Why not?
Question 19
Did you not choose that in the first place?
Question 20
Why was it necessary then and it's no longer?
Question 21
But also having difficulties throwing off those robes and the symbols that are a part of it, aren't they?
Question 22
Question 23
If there is no more Rajneeshism... no more religion, will there continue to be a Rajneesh and a Rajneeshpuram?
Question 24
You'll keep the name even though... taken from a religion that no longer exists?
Question 25
But they can no longer identify themselves as Rajneeshees, is that accurate?
Question 26
But there is a Rajneesh.
Question 27
And will they?
Question 28
When will they change it back?
Question 29
Have you also offered to sell some of the property back to...?
Question 30
All of the properties?
Question 31
Is this kind of a peace offering to the community on your part?
Question 32
Do you think they'll accept it?
Question 33
You said earlier that you really want your sannyasins to doubt, to be skeptical... And many suspect that perhaps this series of bombshells that have been dropped, as a result of Sheela's activities, might be part of a hidden agenda that you have and that perhaps you too intend to leave?
Question 34
What if you lose the deportation hearing?
Question 35
You have (unclear) that you'd like to see this group, the Rajneeshees, become an intrinsic part of the state of Oregon, but haven't the antagonisms really in this local area gone so far that is that approachable? Is that achievable?
Question 36
Did you not say you'd like to be?
Question 37
I'd like to just go back for a moment... to your decision now to end the religion: first of all, religion was not for you, but it had been corrupted by Sheela. Was that solely the catalyst for the decision to end the religion or were there other elements that came into play?
Question 38
... Not reports of dwindling followers, not the legal battles....
Question 39
What did she do with them?
Question 40
Do you understand how an enlightened man such as yourself, how all of this could have evolved without your knowing, with your right-hand person? It is extraordinarily confusing for many.
Question 41
I don't know if we can use that on TV....
Question 42
Very graphic.
Question 43
How much in debt is the commune?
Question 44
So she didn't run off with any...?
Question 45
How much...?
Question 46
You can prove that through the books, that it is indeed forty-three million...?
Question 47
... Who is still here?
Question 48
She's got facts, figures, papers...?
Question 49
Sheela has been quoted recently as saying that the accusations that you've made against her are "absolute nonsense" and that she had told you that your penchant for expensive things -- watches, automobiles -- were getting everyone into trouble.
Question 50
You deny that?
Question 51
The people here adore you. I mean, you are their world. This has been an horrendous period for all of them, individually, and certainly for you. But do you almost feel as if you, by having taken that vow of silence, that was the catalyst that brought this on everyone, all of you?
Question 52
But you have no regrets.
Question 53
What about the accusations of the Hobo who had been killed, and I understand now that there was a laboratory found where there were bombs being made....
Question 54
Do you?
Question 55
Will normalcy ever return to Rajneeshpuram?
Question 56 : Bill Harlan, the Denver Post Newspaper, Denver, Co
Bhagwan, a sannyasin friend said to me, "I bet that Bhagwan will get rid of the bullets." And I want to know if you intend to do that.
Question 57
Bhagwan, the greatest threat right now seems to be from the government itself, from the INS or from Oregon authorities. Is it possible that these weapons would be used against the legal authorities of the state?
Question 58
In this morning's discourse I heard you say that you're nobody's master, that you have no disciples. Yet -- and it was very impressive, your entry into the Mandir, your very beautiful robes, your chair which is almost thronelike -- these seemed to be the accoutrements of a master. Why all the trappings?
Question 59
Question 60
I heard you say this morning that love is a state of being and that in a relationship love cannot exist, that a relationship will kill love. Yet it seems in watching your sannyasins with you, and you with them, that there is an incredible relationship.
Question 61
Bhagwan, again as an outside observer, to come to Rajneeshpuram and see sannyasins working quite hard, and albeit they're enjoying it, they look happy at their work, but they're working quite hard, long hours, staying in fairly simple accommodations. And then on the other hand to see you drive by in the very beautiful rainbow-colored Rolls Royce, and I assume that you have very nice accommodations... It looks as if the immediate conclusion to be drawn is that there's some kind of exploitation going on here.
Question 62
Well, how do you respond to that, or what are your thoughts on that?
Question 63
Why? Why do they do that?
Question 64
On death, I believe you said that the man who understands life does not fear death.
Question 65
And yet I see warnings that two-thirds of the population will die from AIDS, and alcohol being used around the commune, and the security, and that looks, if not paranoid, at least extremely cautious. And there seems to be a contradiction there.
Question 66
Bhagwan, what happened to the two people who were diagnosed as...?
Question 67
Here on the Ranch?
Question 68
A sannyasin told me that this is a good time to be at Rajneeshpuram, that things are going to be happening. I think the word he used was juicy.
Question 69
Well, what will it mean to be a sannyasin in the future, from this day forward?
Question 70
Will the nuts and bolts of the commune change? Will the system of volunteer work change? The common meals?
Question 71
A sannyasin said to me along those lines that -- with a laugh, and almost with glee -- "now we can be negative."
Question 72
Have you noticed this?
Question 73
Is the quality of information you receive from sannyasins different?
Question 74
I think there are some legal clouds hanging over the....
Question 75
If the decision at the INS goes against you and the Supreme court rules against you also, then what will be the future of Rajneeshpuram?
Question 76
Would you do it?
Question 77
Edited excerpt: 7min 03sec, parts of questions 77-78 **
It seems that you've angered local people through some of your statements, and I know you have a tendency to make the outrageous statement. Would it be more politic to, perhaps, not mention Mother Teresa in the same breath as Hitler...?
Question 78
What's the purpose of all this, the religiousness, the commune, the state of being with your followers?
Question 79
Bhagwan, obviously you're surrounded by happy people.
Question 80
I understood you to say that none of your sannyasins are enlightened. Did I understand that correctly?
Question 81
Is it possible for a sannyasin to be enlightened...?
Question 82
... and remain a sannyasin?
Question 83
In this unusual environment that you've created just here in Oregon but starting back in India, one would think that in all that time that perhaps at least one or two sannyasins might have achieved that.
Question 84
Are they here?
Question 85
Bhagwan, you mentioned in discourse that there have been no children born in Rajneeshpuram in four years.
Question 86
Why so few children in Rajneeshpuram?
Question 87
I'm sorry, did you say reduce the total population by one half or...?
Question 88
One fourth. So one fourth of the people, in other words, one billion instead of four billion.
Question 89
How many people will come to Rajneeshpuram?
Question 90
How soon might that number be reached?
Question 91
Bhagwan, what I've heard you say is that you're not a prophet. Is that accurate?
Question 92
Are you a holy man?


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