The Last Testament (Vol 3) ~ 15

event type	interview
date & time	5 Oct 1985 pm
location	Sanai Grove, Rajneeshpuram
language	English
audio	Available, duration 1h 51min. Quality: good.
online audio	free download from OshoWorld
video	Available, duration 2h 12min. Quality: good. Lots of music and dancing, 14 minutes before, 9 minutes after the interview.
online video
see also	timeline : Osho Timeline 1985 first edition : The Last Testament (Vol 3) (1994 on CD-ROM) other editions, translations and links
online text	find the PDF of this discourse
shorttitle	LAST315

notes

synopsis: Interview. Announcements by Sw Dhyan John : John Tuttle from KGW, Channel 8, Portland; Swami Vishrant from Australian Consolidated News.; CD-ROM on this chapter: Interview with John Tuttle, KGW-TV, Portland, Oregon (questions 1-50); and Sw Vishrant, Australian Consolidated News (q.51-73).

Question 1 : John Tuttle, KGW-TV, Channel 8, Portland, Oregon

Hello. Bhagwan, what do your people tell you about Siddha and Prabodhi? Are they alive and where are they?

Question 2

The two people I asked about, Siddha and Prabodhi.... Are you suggesting that they were part of these criminals?

Question 3

Siddha is not on the Ranch?

Question 4

Have you had contact with KD?

Question 5

You said that KD has sought immunity. Do you know who else? Who have you been told has sought immunity in order to testify against you and the commune?

Question 6

When and where?

Question 7

Where was it going?

Question 8

Who else do you believe was involved in the heroin scheme besides Sheela?

Question 9

Sheela has suggested that if she is killed, she will be killed by someone from the commune.

Question 10

I think you said Sheela was not a spiritual person. This is not a likely eventuality, is it?

Question 11

Bhagwan, you said you had to teach Sheela the words... when we saw her on television. In Stern she said that you criticized her and you said that she had to be more vocal, to be obscene to appear on television, to get the message across.

Question 12

Have you seen the Stern articles?

Question 13

Did she do well when she appeared on television? Were you pleased with her performances?

Question 14

Why not?

Question 15

Should Oregonians have recognized that in Sheela?

Question 16

As an Oregonian I thought Sheela spoke for you, and I thought that she showed your temperament as you wanted it portrayed....

Question 17

Do you think that Hasya is assertive enough to run this commune?

Question 18

Is any thought been given on your part, now that Puja is gone, to perhaps abandoning the extraordinary AIDS precautions that are used on this ranch?

Question 19

You're confident they're a good decision?

Question 20

How active a role are you taking now in the operation of the Ranch on a day-to-day basis?

Question 21

You laid down a pretty hard guideline this morning at discourse, telling people essentially they have a seven-day deadline to shape up, start coming to work, doing their work.

Question 22

We talk to people here at the commune, and when we turn the cameras off and they can talk to us knowing their pictures are not going to be taken, their voices are not going to be recorded, not a few of them tell us they have enormous doubts now, there are big questions in their minds. They... these are probably the same people who are showing up late for work, and they're asking themselves, "Should I stay? What is this all about? Really, is it for me any more?"

As outsiders, I think we hear or we see the signs of cracks in the commune for the first time. We hear things that make us think the commune could dissolve from withinside.

Question 23

I've heard you make the point before at discourse, that these people have a certain amount of freedom and they want a hell of a lot more. They want more free time, they want to play their guitars, they want to sing and dance....

Question 24

These people, some of them, I'm told they're working as much as twelve hours a day seven days a week. You wouldn't think about initiating, say, an eight-hour work week... weekday.

Question 25

I think that some people may feel -- as much as they love you -- that there's always another road that has to be finished, that there's no point at which they can say we can stop now and we can enjoy what we've built.

Question 26

Talk about freedom in the commune. How much freedom can they have? Sheela really served a purpose here. Sheela was great for this commune because she kept people working.

Question 27

What happens if seven days pass and people don't show up at that cafeteria because they're not working that hard? How do you crack the whip?

Question 28

And being strict would mean kicking people out of here if they don't work?

Question 29

You have people who would come in to replace them.

Question 30

Would it have been better or would it have been possible to build this commune with six-hour days?

Question 31

...(inaudible, sounds like "I have a sign sheet?")

Question 32

Does it concern you that you are the person who is now doing the nagging and the goading?

Question 33

So many people have come to the United States and tried to build societies. And there's a history of failures.

Question 34

How would you feel if there was a minor rebellion here? For example, you've asked the citizens of Rajneesh to change the name of the city back. What if they don't do it?

Question 35

Why not have those sannyasins who don't like living down in Rajneesh right now pack tonight, come down here and live where they want to live?

Question 36

It was the corporation's fault for buying it in the first place. What do they want with Antelope? You've asked the question yourself?

Question 37

The same people who bought that I believe bought that enormous man-camp that's down there, that's housing for another six hundred people? Another....

Question 38

People are more important than property, and those people would be a lot happier in this community. And the amount of money involved is not that great.

Question 39

There's probably nobody in Oregon who wants that land right now, and that means those sannyasins....

Question 40

You're suggesting that Oregonians should put together the money to buy that property...?

Question 41

This is a very rich commune. This commune could forget that property and just bring the people back.

Question 42

Are you prepared to make offers for the remaining property in Antelope?

Question 43

You confident that the books balance here in the United States, that that money that is missing was perhaps taken out of donations?

Question 44

I heard you at the news conference last Monday, I would like you if you could give me a yes or no answer.

You are no longer a religion. Do you expect to keep a tax exemption?

Question 45

Have you talked to a lawyer about this?

Question 46

There's a lot of nice girls on this ranch. Why haven't you gotten married, gotten the green card and gotten it over with?

Question 47

I'm only suggesting one.

Question 48

It could save you a lot of problems.

Question 49

The green card could mean you could travel, though. You could be in Germany to....

Question 50

Do you expect to be arrested soon? Has there been anything from your people, your lawyers, to indicate that you are in some danger of being arrested?

Question 51 : Sw Vishrant, Australian Consolidated News

I've got twelve questions to ask you. The last one's the most important one to me because it's a bit personal. I'm taking advantage of the interview. But the first question: Bhagwan, I've heard you say that you are an ordinary man. In Australia we have a lot of people who would consider themselves as ordinary people. What do you see as the difference between your ordinariness and their ordinariness?

Question 52

The thing that seems to come to mind to a lot of Australians I've spoken to who are anti-disciples is that you have the Rolls Royces and you have the watches which are lovely, and you still claim you're ordinary. And they can't seem to understand at all....

Question 53

Bhagwan, you're one of the most controversial men in the world. You've upset the masses in Australia. What's your reason for doing this?

Question 54

It doesn't make you that popular, though. People tend to run rather than come.

Question 55

Bhagwan, they're not unaware of that. And they believe it's a publicity stunt for you to get them in.

Question 56

Your publicity is more a verbal publicity. It's not something that comes up like the sun.

Question 57

No, it seems not. As a matter of fact, I'm heading this story 'Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh: madman or savior?'

Question 58

Are you a madman or a savior, Bhagwan?

Question 59

When Sheela was in Australia, she said many rude things to Australians on and off the air. Was she acting for you or was she acting for herself?

Question 60

Why would you suspect Sheela would bug your room, Bhagwan?

Question 61

Do you think this could happen again.

Question 62

Well, do you think that Hasya, your new secretary, is capable of mistrust as Sheela was?

Question 63

In July I heard you say, "Tell them to get ready. I'm coming." That was referring to coming to Australia. Are you still coming?

Question 64

So if you get a green card, you're coming out and see us?

Question 65

They wouldn't let you back in?

Question 66

When do you think that you'll put that plan into action of getting the sannyasins to start picketing the American consulates with regard your green card?

Question 67

In Australia we have two communes: one in Sydney and one in Perth, West Australia. Is it possible that now that Sheela and the gang have gone that we could have more communes in more of the towns?

Question 68

I heard you say earlier this evening that you were going to put a six-hour-day on for sannyasins in the communes. Now, there seems to be a situation at Rajneeshpuram here in Oregon where you've got some roads to build and you're going to have to work the twelve hours a day until that gets done.

In other centers around the world, which do follow exactly what the Ranch does in their hours and everything, the thing is a lot of them won't have the same problem, they won't have the roads to build and that. Is it necessary for them to work the twelve hours a day?

Question 69

Are there any enlightened Australian sannyasins?

Question 70

Could you name them for us?

Question 71

Are there any on the Ranch here?

Question 72

Would you be prepared to name any of them?

Question 73

Have you got anything to say to your sannyasins that live in Australia?

(source:CD-ROM)

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