The Last Testament (Vol 4) ~ 02

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event type interview
date & time 22 Oct 1985 pm
location Sanai Grove, Rajneeshpuram
language English
audio Available, duration 1h 59min. Quality: good.
Live music after the interview.
online audio
video Available, duration 2h 1min. Quality: good.
online video
see also
online text find the PDF of this discourse
shorttitle LAST402
Interview. Announcements by Ma Prem Hasya : Sw Deva Nitam from Science 85, Italian edition.
CD-ROM on this chapter: Interview with Sw Deva Nitam, Science 85 Monthly, Italian edition of the American magazine.
Question 1
Bhagwan, the first question is very general. We know that science knows only about objective reality and doesn't have any understanding of deeper phenomenon, like life and consciousness. This lack of understanding is thought to be one of the main reasons for all the ecological disasters and for the continuous increase of nuclear weapons. In your vision, can science be in the service in life and man's evolution? What is your message to scientists to solve this problem?
Question 2
Is there anything we can do to help this process? Is there something sannyasins can do to help this process of transmission of meditation to the university?
Question 3
Edited excerpt: 9min 26sec, question 3 **
One of the basic problems of science is language. Science is growing because we have a clear definition of what we are talking about. One of the basic problems for a scientist, when they are trying to understand what the inner journey means, is to define clearly, for example, what consciousness means. Most of the scientists don't make any difference between consciousness, awareness and the conscious mind. They are using this term in the same way. So I would like to ask you if it's possible to have an understanding about those terms.
Question 4
This is what you mean by religion becoming scientific?
Question 5
I would like to ask you one question, a very delicate question. In the past there have been schools and masters who have used a very scientific approach to religion or meditation -- like Patanjali, Pythagoras, Gurdjieff. Is there anything in their teaching we can use or do we have to create a totally new kind of scientific way?
Question 6
Which one could be?
Question 7
Edited excerpt: 15min 37sec, question 7 **
Bhagwan, one of the basic problem of the psychologist is that they are using a model of mind with yourself as a subjectivity in the center. And then below that there is an unconscious mind, and a collective unconscious mind. The model you are using seems to have two polarities. One is the self, the conscious mind, our identification with our personality. And then there is a layer of mind, a kind of consciousness which is the state below that, where there is no-mind. And it seems that in ordinary human people these two points are together, there is an identification. And in the enlightened one there is a clear observation of this separation between self or personality, and consciousness. Is this so?
Question 8
It seems to me that you are trying to have us go in both the directions: somehow to clean our unconscious, deep down...
Question 9
This is what Maslow called the "peak experience," a moment of...
(Note that Question 10 is missing on the CD-ROM
Bhagwan, I have a personal question. I am leaving for Italy and I would like to be there for a while at least. Creating a kind of work to bridge science and meditation. Just to try, I don't have anything clear in mind. Do you think this is ok for me?
Answer: Try it ! Mmm.)


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