Talk:Jyon Ki Tyon Dhari Dinhi Chadariya (ज्यों की त्यों धरि दीन्हीं चदरिया): Difference between revisions
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Depending on the edition, this book consists of either five or thirteen discourses. Why the discrepancy? It is because the name is applied to two different but related series of talks given in 1970: the first five in Jul and/or Aug (or "Doc X" has it Sep 1-5) and the last eight in Nov ([[The Rebellious Enlightened Master Osho|TREMO]] has it Nov 10-17 but the wiki currently relies on other sources which say Nov 9-16). There is no compelling reason to change any of that for now. The title | Depending on the edition, this book consists of either five or thirteen discourses. Why the discrepancy? It is because the name is applied to two different but related series of talks given in 1970: the first five in Jul and/or Aug (or "Doc X" has it Sep 1-5) and the last eight in Nov ([[The Rebellious Enlightened Master Osho|TREMO]] has it Nov 10-17 but the wiki currently relies on other sources which say Nov 9-16). There is no compelling reason to change any of that for now. The title of the latter eight-discourse series is ''[[Suli Upar Sej Piya Ki (सूली ऊपर सेज पिया की)|Suli Upar Sej Piya Ki]]''. There are few references to this title around the net but enough to accept that the series did have an independent existence before becoming united with ''JKTDDC'' later, though they are quite complementary thematically. But a compelling case cannot be made for changing this dual-name thing, especially now that an early edition photo of ''SUSPK'' has been found. | ||
Most Hindi audio sites do not mention SUSPK at all and say that JKTDDC has 13 discourses, but one site, Tao Vision, lists both in their Mahavir category thusly: Jyon Ki Tyon Dhari Dinhi Chadariya (Panch Mahavrat) (Jyon Ki Tyon Dhari Dinhi Chadariya), consisting of five discourses; and Jyon Ki Tyon Dhari Dinhi Chadariya (Panch Mahavrat) (Suli Upar Sej Piya Ki), consisting of eight discourses. | Most Hindi audio sites do not mention ''SUSPK'' at all and say that ''JKTDDC'' has 13 discourses, but one site, Tao Vision, lists both in their Mahavir category thusly: Jyon Ki Tyon Dhari Dinhi Chadariya (Panch Mahavrat) (Jyon Ki Tyon Dhari Dinhi Chadariya), consisting of five discourses; and Jyon Ki Tyon Dhari Dinhi Chadariya (Panch Mahavrat) (Suli Upar Sej Piya Ki), consisting of eight discourses. | ||
This "Panch Mahavrat" has some significance beyond its mere sameness in the listing of these two series by Tao Vision. For starters, it appears on all the book covers, as a subtitle. It is translated usually as Five Great Vows, a staple of Jainism referring to the five fairly serious resolves undertaken by Jain monks and nuns: non-violence, truthfulness, non-stealing, celibacy and non–attachment. Osho of course has his own take on this. | This "Panch Mahavrat" has some significance beyond its mere sameness in the listing of these two series by Tao Vision. For starters, it appears on all the book covers, as a subtitle. It is translated usually as Five Great Vows, a staple of Jainism referring to the five fairly serious resolves undertaken by Jain monks and nuns: non-violence, truthfulness, non-stealing, celibacy and non–attachment. Osho of course has his own take on this. | ||
As it happens, the Panch Mahavrat are supplemented by five other thingies, Samitis or "carefulnesses," referring to principles or practices said to "purify" one's actions, and three Guptis or "preservations," said to inhibit sinful actions. Never mind the implied | As it happens, the Panch Mahavrat are supplemented by five other thingies, Samitis or "carefulnesses," referring to principles or practices said to "purify" one's actions, and three Guptis or "preservations," said to inhibit sinful actions. Never mind the implied moral strait-jacketing of this kind of language, can you see where i'm going with this? Yes! 5 + 5 + 3 = 13! Ha ha! | ||
Not that he is devoting each discourse to a particular virtue, but the thread of 13-ness permeates this book. And the thread of virtues and "moral" principles, of course with Osho's unique vision applied. Here is the TOC: | Not that he is devoting each discourse to a particular virtue, but the thread of 13-ness permeates this book. And the thread of virtues and "moral" principles, of course with Osho's unique vision applied. Here is the TOC: | ||
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प्रवचन 13 : अप्रमाद (प्रश्नोत्तर) -- Apramada (Q&A) | प्रवचन 13 : अप्रमाद (प्रश्नोत्तर) -- Apramada (Q&A) | ||
All 13 discourses have been translated into English as a more or less unified whole, in [[The Art of Living]], though the last eight are said to have been translated from SUSPK and only the first five from JKTDDC. | All 13 discourses have been translated into English as a more or less unified whole, in [[The Art of Living]], though the last eight are said to have been translated from ''SUSPK'' and only the first five from ''JKTDDC''. -- updated [[User:Sarlo|Sarlo]] ([[User talk:Sarlo|talk]]) 00:05, 10 September 2014 (PDT) | ||
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Revision as of 07:05, 10 September 2014
Depending on the edition, this book consists of either five or thirteen discourses. Why the discrepancy? It is because the name is applied to two different but related series of talks given in 1970: the first five in Jul and/or Aug (or "Doc X" has it Sep 1-5) and the last eight in Nov (TREMO has it Nov 10-17 but the wiki currently relies on other sources which say Nov 9-16). There is no compelling reason to change any of that for now. The title of the latter eight-discourse series is Suli Upar Sej Piya Ki. There are few references to this title around the net but enough to accept that the series did have an independent existence before becoming united with JKTDDC later, though they are quite complementary thematically. But a compelling case cannot be made for changing this dual-name thing, especially now that an early edition photo of SUSPK has been found.
Most Hindi audio sites do not mention SUSPK at all and say that JKTDDC has 13 discourses, but one site, Tao Vision, lists both in their Mahavir category thusly: Jyon Ki Tyon Dhari Dinhi Chadariya (Panch Mahavrat) (Jyon Ki Tyon Dhari Dinhi Chadariya), consisting of five discourses; and Jyon Ki Tyon Dhari Dinhi Chadariya (Panch Mahavrat) (Suli Upar Sej Piya Ki), consisting of eight discourses.
This "Panch Mahavrat" has some significance beyond its mere sameness in the listing of these two series by Tao Vision. For starters, it appears on all the book covers, as a subtitle. It is translated usually as Five Great Vows, a staple of Jainism referring to the five fairly serious resolves undertaken by Jain monks and nuns: non-violence, truthfulness, non-stealing, celibacy and non–attachment. Osho of course has his own take on this.
As it happens, the Panch Mahavrat are supplemented by five other thingies, Samitis or "carefulnesses," referring to principles or practices said to "purify" one's actions, and three Guptis or "preservations," said to inhibit sinful actions. Never mind the implied moral strait-jacketing of this kind of language, can you see where i'm going with this? Yes! 5 + 5 + 3 = 13! Ha ha!
Not that he is devoting each discourse to a particular virtue, but the thread of 13-ness permeates this book. And the thread of virtues and "moral" principles, of course with Osho's unique vision applied. Here is the TOC:
प्रवचन 1 : अहिंसा -- Ahimsa (non-violence) प्रवचन 2 : अपरिग्रह -- Aparigraha (renunciation) प्रवचन 3 : अचौर्य -- Achaurya (non-stealing) प्रवचन 4 : अकाम -- Akam (non-doing) प्रवचन 5 : अप्रमाद -- Apramada (awareness) प्रवचन 6 : अहिंसा (प्रश्नोत्तर) -- Ahimsa (Q&A) प्रवचन 7 : ब्रह्मचर्य -- Brahmacharya (celibacy) प्रवचन 8 : अपरिग्रह (प्रश्नोत्तर) -- Aparigraha (Q&A) प्रवचन 9 : अचौर्य (प्रश्नोत्तर)य -- Achaurya (Q&A) प्रवचन 10 : संन्यास -- Sannyasa (retirement) प्रवचन 11 : अकाम (प्रश्नोत्तर) -- Akam (Q&A) प्रवचन 12 : तंत्र -- Tantra (methods) प्रवचन 13 : अप्रमाद (प्रश्नोत्तर) -- Apramada (Q&A)
All 13 discourses have been translated into English as a more or less unified whole, in The Art of Living, though the last eight are said to have been translated from SUSPK and only the first five from JKTDDC. -- updated Sarlo (talk) 00:05, 10 September 2014 (PDT)
the Diamond edition shows the title written as ज्यों िक त्यों धरि दीन्हीं चदरिया , but they fixed that on the back --Rudra (talk) 21:02, 4 March 2014 (PST)
Good find re Diamond and Fusion numbers of pages. I think that settles how many chapters for those editions. Sarlo (talk) 23:38, 4 March 2014 (PST)
