Talk:Prem Ganga (प्रेम गंगा)
|Shailendra's PDF||Oshoganga||Dates & Places (*1)|
|Prem Ganga ~ 01||(*2)||(*2)||(*2)||(*2)||19 May 1969 pm, Indore|
|Prem Ganga ~ 02||#2||2. जीवन का दर्शन||2. विश्वास से मुक्ति-1||2. विश्वास से मुक्ति||20 May 1969 am, Indore|
|Prem Ganga ~ 03||
||1. प्रेम दर्शन||1. विचार का स्वागत||1. विचार का स्वागत||20 May 1969 pm, Indore|
|Prem Ganga ~ 04||#4||3. प्रेम गंगा||3. विश्वास से मुक्ति-2||3. प्रेम गंगा||21 May 1969 am, Indore|
|Prem Ganga ~ 05||#5
missing last word
|4. जीवन से प्रेम
missing last word
|4. मोक्ष से मुक्ति||4. मोक्ष से मुक्ति||21 May 1969 pm, Indore|
- (*1) This is the chronological order of the events. Source of dates: tapes labels, but first two dates were corrected, to be confirmed. See below analysis. Osho's Appointment Diary 1967-1970 (translated source document) confirmes that Osho was giving talks in Indore in that period, but adds more questions: according to the source discourses were in mornings, Q&A in afternoon (maybe private meetings?) and general meetings in evenings.
- (*2) The first talk is known to have happened, but audio and text are missing.
Not much to say about this audio-only series: No traces were found of an actual published book, and not even the nice clue of Indore has yielded any dates. And not all of the audio discourses have made it into the audiobooks on offer (where they get titles). The following remain:
- 1. प्रेम दर्शन
- 2. जीवन का दर्शन
- 3. प्रेम गंगा
- 4. जीवन से प्रेम
Extracts from text (source: Shailendra's PDF):
- ch.1: evening talk on second sutra (reference on yesterday sutra's talk which was evening and ch.2 confirmes that talks on sutras were in evenings). Starts by "Yesterday evening, on the sources of life-revolution, I had talked about a few sutras. That first sutra was: Freedom from the past. People who keep looking back are unable to see forward - and life is always forwards, not backwards. What is behind is the name of death. Back is the one who is dead. Next is that which is alive. Those who have a vision in the back get involved in seeing death, and those who see death slowly die if not surprised.
- The philosophy of life is ahead - where the sun will rise now; Where the flowers will bloom right now; Where life will be. Not where the footprints are left; Where we have ever been, where ever the flowers have blossomed and wherever the sun has come out, where the dust of the road is now left, there is no life. Whether a person and a nation, people who look backwards gradually become rooted. India too became rooted like this. Therefore, the first thing I said: you should be free from looking back.
- The second sutra I want to tell you today." ... "Freedom from faith and reception of thought."
- ch.2: first q/a morning talk. Starts by "Friends have sent many questions regarding yesterday's discussion. A friend has asked that you ask to forget the past, but by forgetting the past, you will deviate from the future. The past is our source of inspiration, our experience is the basis of the past." (Reference to missing yesterday's first talk.)
- ends by "There are some more questions left in this regard, we will talk to them tomorrow morning. (Reference to ch.3.) Today evening I will talk about the second sutra and tomorrow evening I will talk on the third sutra." (Reference to ch.1 and 4)
- ch.3: morning talk on q/a, starts by "There have been many questions regarding previous discussions."
- in the end: "There are some more questions that could not be discussed, all those questions are important. But there is a time limit and if those questions are left and they feel that their answers are necessary, then you can write to me and ask. We will talk about the third last sutra at dusk." (Reference to ch.4.)
- ch.4: last talk of 3 days on third sutra, starts by "In the sources of life-revolution, we have considered two sutras. Freedom from the past on the first day: He who has passed, he should also pass through the mind; He who has not survived, does not remain in our thoughts. He is gone, he must leave. We should not be free from him, we can be free from him. As a snake leaves the snakeskin and moves forward, the snakes are left behind. Till yesterday she was a part of his body, today it is past, dead, separated. He left and got out. The society which moves past leaving its past like a snake, is evolving. A person who is constantly free from the past, is always approaching the truth and near to life. Therefore, in the first sutra, I understood the point of freedom from the past. (Reference to first missing talk.)
- The second sutra was: freedom from faith. (Reference to ch.1.) Those who are bound by faith are never able to give birth to independent consciousness. To be bound by faith is to be blind. If you have to close your eyes with your hand, then a man can remain in the trap of faith. You have to think if you want to open your eyes. And the idea is laborious, because the idea is to do it yourself. Faith is laziness, because faith mixes with another. And what depends on the other is never possible. And one who is not able to be himself - he has neither talent nor any soul - be it a person, a society, a nation. The thought itself gives birth to the soul. In the second sutra, we understood in relation to freedom from faith.
- Today the third sutra - the first was: liberation from the past. Second: freedom from faith. And today the third: liberation from salvation."
- in the end: "In these three days I said these three sutras: liberation from the past, liberation from faith and liberation from salvation. Three staircases to enter at the gate of life. But there is no need to accept my point. Thinking, thinking, searching, experimenting with me. Maybe I am wrong, maybe it is right. Who am I to say that what is right is wrong? You should examine it. Maybe if some particle of truth is seen in that investigation, then that particle can revolutionize your life.
- And if the ray of a small revolution comes, not today, tomorrow, the sun of revolution also comes down in the whole life. If a lamp burns, then there is not much difficulty in reaching the sun. Because what is hidden in the lamp in small form, it has grown up in the sun and appeared. But we are full of darkness. But in the same lamp, in the same beam…. And unlike these three sutras which are going on, that lamp cannot be born in their lives. Heard my words with so much peace and love these days, I am very grateful for that..."
Conclusion on order:
- first evening talk on first sutra ("Freedom from the past") is missing
- ch.2 - morning talk on second day (q/a)
- ch.1 - evening talk on second day on second sutra ("Freedom from faith")
- ch.3 - morning talk on third day (q/a)
- ch.4 - evening talk on third day on third sutra ("Liberation from salvation")
Indore meets in ch.1 and 2, so it can confirm that the series was in there. Candidates:
- a) Sep 1966;
- b) 17-19 Feb 1968
- c) 14-16 Jul 1968
- d) 20-23 Jul 1968
- e) 17-20 May 1969
There is in ch.4: "I was just Bhavnagar..." Osho.com gives Bhavnagar med.camp in audio section for description of this series, so it looks incorrect.--DhyanAntar 15:39, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
No relation found with first talk of Prem Hai Dwar Prabhu Ka (प्रेम है द्वार प्रभु का).--DhyanAntar 03:28, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
Tape labels confirmes place Indore for all talks. Regarding the dates it says:
- 20 May 1969 am
- 20 May 1969 om
- 20 May 1969 pm
- 21 May 1969 am
- 21 May 1969 pm
According to above analysis there was 3 days series and first talk was on evening, then the next is on morning. I used them as 19th pm and 20th am respectively. It needs confirmation for it.
Audio durations from labels matches to our audios (order of tapes is as OW's).--DhyanAntar 06:44, 23 August 2022 (UTC)