The Last Testament (Vol 1) ~ 17

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event type interview
date & time 3 Aug 1985 pm
location Jesus Grove, Rajneeshpuram
language English
audio Available, duration 1h 54min. Quality: good.
Live music after the interview.
online audio
video Available, duration 2h 13min. Quality: good.
online video
see also
online text find the PDF of this discourse
shorttitle LAST117
Most of the 166 interviews Osho gave during the Ranch era and World Tour (see The Last Testament (series)) have never been published in book form. They have been published on the CD-ROM though; there they appear under the titles The Last Testament (Vol 1) to (Vol 6).
CD-ROM on this chapter: This discourse is published in The Last Testament, Vol 1, chapter 28. See The Last Testament, Vol 1#Correspondence between this Book and the CD-ROM.
Clips from this interview have been used in the film The Last Testament - Interviews with World Media (1985).
Interview. Announcements by Ma Prem Savita : (name inaudible) Holland
CD-ROM on this chapter: Willem Scheer, Pers Unie, The Hague, Netherlands.
Question 1
My first question would be: Bhagwan, I have been trained in a climate of critical journalism. I am taught as a journalist never to believe anyone on his word. Are you capable to communicate your message to suspicious journalists? Or is trust needed to understand what you really mean?
Question 2
So your sannyasins also should be skeptical about what you say?
Question 3
And when you say, "Do this and that and this will be the result," then they enter it with a skeptical, critical mind?
Question 4
But you also said, "Trust me, follow me."
Question 5
So trust is a later state?
Question 6
May I ask another question? I belong to the diminishing minority of Dutch people who regard the holy Roman Catholic church as a wonderful institute in which a lot of wisdom can be found. At the same time I enjoy your books and videos. Is this a paradox, and if so, what can be done about it?
Question 7
I meet in the Catholic church persons whom I sincerely experience as sincere. And I have often read that for example Mother Teresa... You mock her a lot. I once met her myself and I found her a beautiful woman. When I asked her, "Should Christians convert people of other religions to Christianity?" She answered, "No, let everybody go his own way. You go your way to God, I go my way." And I found her a sincere woman, as far as I can experience.
Question 8
It seems, Bhagwan, when you are an outsider -- when you are a complete outsider -- it seems that Rajneeshism also is a prison. I went into it a little bit and I see that this is not the case. But how can you make clear to other people that this is in fact an anti-church?
Question 9
And become a sannyasin....
Question 10
And your path is objective?
Question 11
And anybody who follows your path finds this truth?
Question 12
May I pass to another question?
Question 13
Reading your discourses, Bhagwan, one meets with contradictions constantly. I did not study all your books of course, but basing myself on the ones I did read, I think there are not many statements of yours which are not countered by other statments. Am I right that you constantly undermine your own teachings? What is the unchanging nucleus in your vision?
Question 14
But is there an unchangeable nucleus, then, in your vision?
Question 15
Am I wrong when I say, when I try to describe your nucleus, the nucleus in your vision, as celebrating life?
Question 16
And now my question is: This idea that you tried to describe of living out of the fullness of your consciousness and in this moment, here and now -- is this idea not also a product of tradition?
Question 17
But we are all still reading the books you spoke in the past. Is that senseless then?
Question 18
So, it would be possible that at the end you would say, the very notion of enlightenment -- forget it!
Question 19
So the only nucleus in your vision is Bhagwan himself.
Question 20
You said just a moment ago, "I want to shock people awake." And I have the feeling that very often you shock with such a heaviness that you provoke a lot of aggression against yourself, against your sannyasins. Is this price worthwhile?
Question 21
Would you describe what is ordinarily understood as "mental health" in society... Would you describe this as sleep?
Question 22
You mean within the community of sannyasins, these thousands of people who can be enlightened?
Question 23
Bhagwan, when I get around your sannyasins -- I get along very well with them, it's pleasant to be with them -- but I very often feel that they follow you blindly, and I don't know if I am wrong or right but I very often get this feeling. For example, you said the other day it's a good idea to produce test-tube babies. Now I'm sure, in some days, all your sannyasins know this idea of yours and they agree with you. Now, in two weeks you say something opposite -- all your sannyasins agree with you.
Question 24
But where is then the doubt and the responsibility for yourself? I cannot, even if I would love you deeply, I could not follow your opinions every day. Every day you change your opinions, don't you?
Question 25
But you cannot decide to have a love affair.
Question 26
There is objectivity between those lines?
Question 27
May I ask quite another question? All over the world, and in the Netherlands also, we are very concerned with your Rolls Royces, of course, and I decided I have to ask a question about this.
Question 28
So I would like to explain that I, myself, am the happy owner of a car of the Japanese make, Toyota Corolla. Now, I would rather have two of them, so I would have one in reserve but I couldn't imagine what to do with three Toyotas. You have, if I am right, seventy-five Rolls Royces at your disposal. They're not....
Question 29
Where is the problem?
Question 30
May I phrase this question?
Question 31
My question, which I had written down for this, is why, in your vision, it is impossible to work on your own personal growth and at the same time help your neighbor? Why is it impossible to be a sannyasin and at the same time help Ethiopia?
Question 32
So, if I understand you well, Bhagwan, you say that the misery in Ethiopia is very real.
... And this reminds me of one of your discourses in which you said, "Your misery is bogus." And this at the time made rather an impression on me, and I began to suspect that my personal misery is bogus indeed.
But then I wondered, is the misery of this Ethiopian mother, seeing her child dying of starvation, bogus also?
Question 33
Do I understand you correctly, that you say nobody should do anything about Ethiopia?
Question 34
Bhagwan, if President Reagan would decide to ask you to be his advisor, what would you advise him in regard to these nuclear arms?
Question 35
But practically, should the United States disarm?
Question 36
May I change to a subject with a bit more fun?
Question 37
In the press conference, you described your commune as a circus and yourself as a great showman, the greatest in the world. Were you mocking yourself and your commune? Why did you say it?
Question 38
How would you describe it now?
Question 39
And you are a serious teacher?
Question 40
Real stones?
Question 41
You're not suggesting them?
Question 42
It was their idea, it was not your idea, this commune?


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