The Last Testament (Vol 2) ~ 29

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event type interview
date & time 20 Sep 1985 pm
location Sanai Grove, Rajneeshpuram
language English
audio Available, duration 1h 53min. Quality: good.
online audio
video Available, duration 2h 11min. Quality: good.
online video
see also
online text find the PDF of this discourse
shorttitle LAST229
Interview. Announcements by Ma Prem Hasya : (name inaudible) from ZDF from Germany; Eric Falwell (?) from Stern magazine
Editors: The first part Hasya clearly introduces as ZDF-TV (questions 1-13). The second part is definetely a German or Austrian (q.14-51).
CD-ROM on this chapter: Interview with Stern Magazine, and ZDF-TV, West Germany. Introduction inaudible. This does not appear to be Stern Magazine but another German interviewer.
Question 1 : ZDF-TV, West Germany
Today you blamed sannyasins for having created a Sheela and her gang. Isn't that too easy? Why don't you blame yourself as well? After all, Sheela was one of your closest sannyasins for many years.
Question 2
How did you blame yourself? Could you explain it?
Question 3
You mean that seriously?
Question 4
I wouldn't agree with that, because there's a lot of cult surrounding you and cult basically leads always to a certain kind of blindness.
Question 5
But at least your disciples....
Question 6
Is the dream to live now and today without thinking of the future gone? If you would have been thinking on the future, it would have been revealed what Sheela did.
Question 7
Was it even a lesson for you?
Question 8
Could you elaborate a little how they planned to kill you, how they planned to assassinate you?
Question 9
May I interrupt you? Because I would like to know whether you see now the sannyasins being all the time more believers than people which doubted?
Question 10
... What you tried to teach them?
Question 11
Did he become sick?
Question 12
Do your sannyasins chase her?
Question 13
What is actually your feeling now towards Sheela and what would you do if she would come back?
Question 14 : Eric Falwell (?), Stern Magazine
I think that you once said in Poona, "It may not look like, but I know exactly what is going on in my commune." What is your explanation that you obviously did not know anything that was going on here in this commune?
Question 15
Bhagwan, you said you are a lover not a leader....
Question 16
... You are not the ruler in this commune and there are no ruled.
Question 17
But some sannyasins obviously are prepared to do everything when they are told that it is your wish. They may even kill for you. Does this frighten you?
Question 18
Does it make you sad that you are so often misunderstood and obviously by your own....
Question 19
Bhagwan, you tell your sannyasins that the commune is not a voting club, that their opinion does not count much because they are not enlightened. Does this not make them more dependent on you?
Question 20
When nobody is dictating, then your sannyasins, I think this was in your own words: "Could become lazy. The commune could fall apart." Do you think that your sannyasins need a whip? I mean, the same people you call probably the highest expression of evolution?
Question 21
So you said the whole fault for this tragic affair here was yours. You will not allow that to happen again. What kind of safeguards are you planning and what kind of... could there be?
Question 22
Was it a real threat that when you said that you might not do anything against a second Sheela if there is a second Sheela here in the commune coming up?
Question 23
You told this morning that some of your people are forcing their way to your house. Does that mean that these people become a nuisance to you, a burden the commune maybe, or the commune a burden to you?
Question 24
Let's come back to the crimes Sheela and her gang have committed. Some people will say that there are no real crimes, that it is just kind of a power struggle and that you used Sheela as a scapegoat because she created that kind of hostility towards the outside world and the Oregonians especially. What would you like to comment on that?
Question 25
Will there be more hard evidence coming up for these crimes?
Question 26
Are you actually comparing the crimes Sheela and the gang have committed with Hitler's?
Question 27
But Sheela was stopped earlier.
Question 28
For someone having committed all these terrible crimes, planned all these crimes, I feel her retreat was quite orderly. She sent you this letter, and some of her gang or some of the people left one day later. Is that correct and how could you explain that, that they were not all running away, obviously, in the same moment?
Question 29
Given the chance to speak to Sheela now, what would you like to tell her?
Question 30
Did she take her mala with her?
Question 31
As far as I know, you are not sure yet if she has stolen some money or put some money in a Swiss bank account. But you mentioned this debt of fifty-five million U.S. dollars. Could you comment on that?
Question 32
And they have not resigned from that?
Question 33
If the commune is in financial trouble....
Question 34
In case there have to be made some sacrifices would you suggest that some of the Rolls Royces are sold?
Question 35
If you would call them not sacred, would that help maybe?
Question 36
Would you agree that there was security paranoia here in the commune which allowed Sheela to establish much more weapons than really were needed, to stockpile these weapons?
Question 37
If that's correct, what would you do with these guns now?
Question 38
Last time when you chose Sheela as your secretary you said in your lecture that you didn't need an intellectual, you just needed a parrot.
Question 39
As what, if I may ask, do you see your new secretary?
Question 40
Many people I interviewed in the last days would like to see Rajneeshpuram to become a kind of a holiday resort.
Question 41
Do you see any problems? I mean, does it go together with this strong feeling of belonging together, of tightly knit religious community?
Question 42
Does it mean you would like to buy some more land here in Oregon?
Question 43
Obviously some of the Oregonians, or Americans, at all did not like the kind of language Sheela was using. Would you say there is a new approach now?
Question 44
Do you see your renaming of Antelope as a kind of a peace gesture or...?
Question 45
But you accept.
Question 46
But all in all I understand that you would like to stay in the United States, you like to live in the United States.
Question 47
Do you see any danger that you could be extradited or whatever?
Question 48
I mean, obviously some other people saw this danger, because your Swiss bank account.
Question 49
You will fight with all your legal means or would you also, I quote, "Sheela, paint the bulldozers with your blood"?
Question 50
In case you get your green card tomorrow, which country would you prefer to...?
Question 51
I give you two quotes of Sheela. Which one would you think is the real one?
"I'm still in love with Bhagwan" or "Bhagwan is the most corrupt on earth."


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