Talk:Agyat Ki Or (अज्ञात की ओर)
Neeten's Osho Source Book says Osho's first recorded discourse and preserved tape seems to be Agyat, recorded in Ahmedabad on Jul 10, 1963, running some 57 minutes. Neeten has also reproduced the translator's preface to Towards the Unknown.
Hindi pdfs of two chapters of this book (the same ones translated as Towards the Unknown?) floating around the net say that discourses 4 and 7 were given in Surat in the evenings of June 29 & 30, 1967. If the book presents the discourses in chronological order, then 5 and 6 were given in Surat as well, leaving only 2 and 3 to be accounted for. -- 27 May 2014
And fwiw, more info from a new source, Hathi Trust, but how it fits with existing info is far from clear. They purport to describe the 1969 JJK edition but have it at 93 pages with the subtitle "Acharya Sri Rajneesh Ke Do Pravachan," ie two discourses of Acharya Sri Rajneesh. Since the audio sites are offering seven discourses averaging more than an hour and the e-book excerpts refer to discourse #4 and 7, it is hard to imagine this book being any more than a partial rendering, if that. More clues are needed to assimilate this.
And more clues have been found, in previously overlooked portions of Neeten's work, but not entirely clarificatory:
- First, a bare-bones entry for a publication in 1967, with no bibliographical details, but okay, first pub date.
- Second, an entry for the 1969 edition, with some details, Sep 1969, 94 pages. This aligns not too badly with the Hathi Trust data, but the mystery of the seven discourses vs the two in the subtitle continues.
- Third, an entry for the first edition of Towards the Unknown, with lots of details, including that it was published one month before the 1969 Hindi edition. But, alas, it also says the two talks were from Aug 15, 1969, not only an unlikely instant translation and publication but out of line with previous discourse dates. Not really very credible, when you get down to it. Sigh! -- updated Sarlo (talk) 00:12, 30 August 2014 (PDT)
2018 updates
TOC
Discourse titles from osho.com's audiobook for five of the Agyat talks:
- 1. न भोग, न त्याग, वरन रूपांतरण
- 2. धर्म की सही शिक्षा
- 3. चित्त को बदलने की कीमिया
- 4. विज्ञान और धर्म में कोई विरोध नहीं
- 5. मन का पात्र कभी भरता नहीं
Shailendra e-book also has the same TOC as above except "--" instead second comma in first ch-title. Most likely 5 discourses in this series. Nothing to say clearer without TOC from printed book.--DhyanAntar 10:09, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
The e-book at OshoWorld has 2 chapters, with dates 29 and 30 xxx 1967. (The PDF cannot be copy-pasted because of the font.) --Sugit (talk) 12:06, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
Dates, Places and Numbers
The preface of the 1969 translation Towards the Unknown says:
- "This book in your hand (...) is the translation of original Hindi 'Agyat-ki-Aur' being the scholarly discourses by Acharya Rajneeshji (...)"
That suggest that it is a complete translation! Maybe Agyat Ki Or at first had only 2 chapters, and then in later editions acquired more material? Or the 7 chapters of Agyat Ki Or were condensed to 2 in Towards the Unknown? Just thinking out loud. --Sugit (talk) 13:52, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
Sw Jagdish Bharti has provided info on 5 talks:
| talk | date and location |
|---|---|
| Agyat Ki Or #1 | 18 Jan 1967 Matunga Mumbi |
| Agyat Ki Or #2 | 3 Mar 1967 Vallabh Vidhyabhavan Anand |
| Agyat Ki Or #3 | 29 Jun 1967 Lions Club Surat |
| Agyat Ki Or #4 | 3 Sep 1967 Pune |
| Agyat Ki Or #5 | 30 Jul 1967 Rotary Club Surat |
To compare with 'the current wiki's data':
- Agyat Ki Or ~ 01 10 Jul 1963 Ahmedabad
- Agyat Ki Or ~ 04 29 Jun 1967 pm Surat
- Agyat Ki Or ~ 07 30 Jun 1967 pm Surat
- Agyat Ki Or ~ ? 15 Aug 1969 pm
4th event looks as talk #3. I suggest that 7th event has incorrect month, then this event seems talk #5.--DhyanAntar 06:40, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
First edition of Agyat Ki Or has 2 talks only. Next edition has 7 talks.
Audios from those days have 7 talks. OshoWorld has these 7 audios. Later on 2 out of 7 were moved to more appropriate titles:
- Audio #1 from OW is now in Vigyan, Dharm Aur Kala (विज्ञान, धर्म और कला) #2.
- Audio #6 from Osho World got printed in two books Amrit Varsha (अमृत वर्षा) #6 and Jeevan Ki Kala (जीवन की कला) #3
Source for this info is Shailendra. He also stated that PDF in OW has two chapters only, which are Agyat Ki Or #4 of OW (#3 in present book) and Agyat Ki Or #7 of OW (#5 in present book).--DhyanAntar 04:58, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
The combination of all this recent info looks good. Re the "incorrect month" for #7-which-became-#5, it could be a toss-up except for the problem of finding an intermediary one or two discourses between it and #4-which-became-#3. That they are both in the same city, Surat, makes succeeding months looks better than the same month.
And with this, the "current wiki's" two dates in 1963 and 1969 have become outliers. Perhaps they are the two that got moved to other books, or either or both could be just wrong, especially the 1969 date, since its source applies it to two talks. -- doofus-9 18:50, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
media status
OW has 7 mp3s, osho.com has 5. The 5 audios of osho.com, looking at duration, could correspond to OW's 2, 3, 4, 5 and 7.
It needs to be researched what audio is what text. Also compare with the 2 chapters of Towards the Unknown. --Sugit (talk) 12:06, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
