Talk:Samadhi Ke Dwar Par (समाधि के द्वार पर)
|2013 book edition (*2)
|Shailendra's PDF||Oshoganga||Dates & Places|
|Samadhi Ke Dwar Par ~ 01||#1||1. समाधि के द्वार पर||1. समाधि के द्वार पर||1. समाधि के द्वार पर||1. समाधि के द्वार पर||21 Feb 1970 pm, Poona, meditation camp|
|Samadhi Ke Dwar Par ~ 02||#3||3. सम्मोहन का उपयोग||3. सम्मोहन का उपयोग||3. सम्मोहन का उपयोग||3. एकाकीपन का बोध||22 Feb 1970 am, Poona, meditation camp|
|Samadhi Ke Dwar Par ~ 03||#4
missing first sentence, end incomplete
|2. समाधि के तीन चरण
missing first sentence, end incomplete
|2. एकाकीपन का बोध
|4. एकाकीपन का बोध
|4. एकाकीपन का बोध
|22 Feb 1970 pm, Poona, meditation camp|
|Samadhi Ke Dwar Par ~ 04||#6||4. एकाकीपन का बोध||4. अहिंसा, सत्य, अस्तेय, ब्रह्मचर्य, असंग्रह||6. अहिंसा, सत्य, अस्तेय, ब्रह्मचर्य, असंग्रह||6. अहिंसा, सत्य, अस्तेय, ब्रह्मचर्य, असंग्रह||23 Feb 1970 am, Poona, meditation camp|
|Samadhi Ke Dwar Par ~ 05||#2||5. मन की मृत्यु ही समाधि है||5. समाधि के तीन चरण||2. समाधि के तीन चरण||2. समाधि के तीन चरण||23 Feb 1970 pm, Poona, meditation camp|
|Samadhi Ke Dwar Par ~ 06||#5||6. अहिंसा, सत्य, अस्तेय, ब्रह्मचर्य, असंग्रह||6. मन की मृत्यु ही समाधि है||5. मन की मृत्यु ही समाधि है||5. मन की मृत्यु ही समाधि है||24 Feb 1970 am, Poona, meditation camp|
|Samadhi Ke Dwar Par ~ 07||(No audio. In event ~ 06, Osho says: "... because tonight one hour silent speech, silent communication will take place.")||24 Feb 1970 pm, Poona, meditation camp|
Note: all sources give incorrect order of events. Current events listed chonologically. Osho.com (2013ed. belongs to osho.com too) is closest to this order: only second and third talks shifted. On last night, Samadhi Ke Dwar Par ~ 07, there was silent talk. For analysis of events see bottom of the page.
(*1) Chapter titles in audio Osho.com collection do not match to their contents which presented in printed book and its library.
(*2) Comparing of this edition based on its table of contents.
- विषय सूची (TOC):
- 1. समाधि के द्वार पर
- 2. समाधि के तीन चरण
- 3. सम्मोहन का उपयोग
- 4. एकाकीपन का बोध
- 5. मन की मृत्यु ही समाधि है
- 6. अहिंसा, सत्य, असत्य, ब्रह्मचर्य, असंग्रह
There is a welter of information about this collection of talks but nothing written about it here. The main reason for that is that the info is paralyzingly conflicting. One new piece of info has come to light today however, which has tilted the balance toward settling on something at least provisionally, and that is a letter Osho wrote to Punglia ji, one of his organizers in Pune about a series of upcoming talks. The title of this series was to be Samadhi Ke Dwar Par and the dates were to be the mornings of Feb 21 to 24 1970.
Osho wrote this letter in early Feb and thus the events were still in the future and uncertain, but that series DID happen sometime, so why not then? This aligns partially with previous info found in Osho's Itinerary which had a camp scheduled for those dates in Mahableshwar, a three-or-so-hour drive south of Pune. That itinerary info had been printed possibly around the beginning of January, so this letter supersedes that info, suggesting that Mahableshwar wasn't working out so a more convenient location was arranged for the same dates. Plus, fwiw, that camp in Mahableshwar was being organised by Manik Babu, also of Pune, so the transfer there could happen fairly smoothly.
These dates can account for four of SKDP's six talks. Since the first one is titled "Samadhi Ke Dwar Par", it seems reasonable to say that the first four events of this series were likely those four talks in Pune. That there were not more than these four talks in the four days is also suggested by the letter, in which Osho talks explicitly about four discourses in the mornings and four meditations at night. And the audios are all approx the same length, one hour or so, not just a few words from meditation instructions.
So two talks have to come from elsewhere and elsewhen, and this is where the aforementioned welter of conflicting info comes in. Shifting content in Hindi books (source document), an impressive cross-referencing of many of Osho's Hindi talks which have undergone title changes over the years, matches up SKDP's six chapters with six chapters in other books. This may seem promising, but it does not lead to any plausible conclusions.
Four of SKDP's chapters are matched up with four from Shunya Samadhi (शून्य समाधि) and the other two with two from Aath Pahar Youn Jhumte (आठ पहर यूं झूमते). So far so good but ... Shunya Samadhi's five "known" dates are in 1968, and while it may have as many as four unknown dates, they correspond, in "Shifting content", to SKDP's #1, 3, 5 and 6, not four consecutive numbers.
Meanwhile, over at Aath Pahar, its two relevant chapters (#6 and 7) are said to correspond to SKDP's # 2 and 4 (old audio) or 5 and 2 (new). 2 and 4 ARE the missing numbers in the Shunya Samadhi connection, but again, why not consecutive? And Aath Pahar's dates are all over the place, given by an unreliable e-book. FWIW, its ch 6&7 were supposedly given on Mar 21 and 22 1970 in Pune, which dates conflict with other sources placing the talks elsewhere and with other series. Where can we go with this? Plenty of possibilities, but all speculative, not productive here. Enough for today? -- doofus-9 22:41, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
Would it help if someone listens to the audio? If yes, then you could make a list of questions below, and I put it on a todo list. If not, then please remove it. --Sugit (talk) 06:08, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
I'm not sure what might be gained by such time-consuming research, other than settling the equivalency of some of SKDP's discourses with some of Shunya Samadhi's. Then what? Still, on a twenty-year to-do list, it might eventually happen. And one might get lucky with time or location references within discourses. It appears that there are none in the first talk, for which i have looked at the translation at OshoGanga. That is the only talk from SKDP i could find there.
OW and o.com both have six talks worth of audio, in slightly different order judging by the timings, so there is also that to sort out. Timings alone cannot sort them out.
And comparing to Aath Pahar #6 and 7, though that will have no audio, only perhaps the e-book.
All that said, will summarize below. -- doofus-9 20:38, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
Possible low-priority lines of research:
- 1. Listen to Osho World and osho.com versions of SKDP audio to determine equivalency, need not be thorough or deep.
- 2. Compare SKDP audio with Shunya Samadhi audio. Any matches?
- 3. Compare SKDP audio with Aath Pahar e-book, ch 6 and 7. Any matches?
- 4. Listen to audio for time and/or location references.
- 5. Miraculously get hold of early edition of SKDP, with all info in it.
It needs to be researched what is what.
Shunya Samadhi was checked too, for results see main article page pf SKDP or Shunya itself.--DhyanAntar 05:32, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
In chapther 5 of Shailendra's PDF Osho says "Here in Poona it is very difficult to see the dream, go to some solitude in the Himalayas, there the dream becomes very easy."
Shailedra gave extracts and small analysis by used text of his PDFs, here are choronological order:
1 - ch.1: this introductory discourse must have been given in night before the camp starts - 21st Feb. pm. "In the morning, I will talk daily about the steps and doors of Samadhi. Whatever questions you have, should be given in writing, I will keep talking about those queries (in morning). And in the night, only those people are invitated who have the courage to enter that door (of samadhi). Therefore you have the whole day to think, if you feel YES, you have the courage to die, only then come in night otherwise not."
2 - ch.3: this Q&A talk must have been given in first morning - 22nd Feb. 1970 am. "We will discuss about more questions tomorrow morning......Keep in mind few informations for evening session..... invitation for night meditation is for all those who want to get down into the void with a little courage, so that we can meet with our real self. "
3 - ch.4: Dark meditation-1 (अंधकार ध्यान प्रयोग) must have been conducted on 22nd Feb. night. "These are three sutras for samadhi-- First: Darkness, Second: Aloneness, Third: Death."
4 - ch.6: this Q&A talk must have been given in morning - 23rd Feb. am. "Some more questions remain, I will talk about them tomorrow morning. But those who have to go deep, they should come to attend meditation in the evening, in the night."
5 - ch.2: Dark meditation-2 must have been conducted 23rd Feb. night. "A notification for tomorrow. Three nights we meditated, we understood what to do. Tomorrow we will do a fourth different meditation. But tomorrow only those people will come who have attended for three days, do not bring any new friends. Tomorrow will be silent communication throughout the hour."
6 - ch.5: this Q&A talk must have been given in last morning of the camp - 24th Feb. am. "Tonight, only those friends should come, who have been coming for the meditation of samadhi for three days, or any friend who has come at least one day, Because tonight one hour silent speech, silent communication will take place."
7 - मौन प्रवचन (not listed in PDF): this silent communication must have been given in last night of the camp as Osho informed in last morning - 24th Feb. pm.
--DhyanAntar 09:29, 26 May 2020 (UTC)