The Last Testament (Vol 2) ~ 02

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event type interview
date & time 22 Aug 1985 pm
location Jesus Grove, Rajneeshpuram
language English
audio Available, duration 1h 52min. Quality: good.
online audio
video Available, duration 2h 10min. Quality: good.
online video
see also
online text find the PDF of this discourse
shorttitle LAST202
Published in book form in The Man of Truth, ch.7 (in 2008).
Interview. Announcements by Ma Anand Sheela : Peter (name inaudible), Questline Radioprogram, Vancouver, Canada
CD-ROM on this chapter: Interview with Questline -- CJOR Radio, Vancouver, Canada.
Question 1
There is a lot of talk about the new age, Aquarian age, you talk about a new man. I heard, you were talking about a merging of Zorba and Buddha, an aligning of the spiritual and the material. Can you please define enlightenment?
Question 2
Your own enlightenment came at the age of twenty-one?
Question 3
And you likened it to an atomic explosion, you said it was like a light that never left you. How would your perception then, being enlightened, differ from people that have not awakened to their own enlightenment?
Question 4
What is blocking the awakening in most people?
Question 5
I saw some deer in Rajneeshpuram. They were obviously very much in this moment. Is man's intellectual mind the baggage that we're carrying around and blocking our own awareness?
Question 6
When you talk about enlightenment, and being in this present moment, surely there must be planning for the future. There must be a certain amount of planning that's gone around Rajneeshpuram. Can you expand on that difficulty that I have in understanding what you are saying?
Question 7
In terms of my model of society that I've been brought up in, if everyone were truly awakened, I have to sit back and say, "Well, what type of society would it be?" There has to be planning; but can you plan in the nowness of this moment for the future?
Question 8
How many enlightened beings are there? At this point in time?
Question 9
Do you think the experience of enlightenment for other individuals would be the same as it was for you -- that atomic explosion you referred to?
Question 10
And that's why it's so difficult for someone like yourself to explain what it is?
Question 11
You've written ... 350 books have now been published on the subject.
Question 12
Let's talk about how to get to enlightenment, or to become awakened to your enlightenment. I've read some of your work and you seem to say that there's two ways to do it: the alone route, through meditation; and the other, through relationships.
Would you talk about relationships because in North America relationships come and go, come and go ... and I don't see that awakening that you were talking about.
Question 13
You are referring to the orgasm?
Question 14
You're talking about getting attached to the experience?
Question 15
Are you talking about the eternal part of the eternal being as being the witness?
Question 16
Could you expand a bit on attachment? Getting attached. How attachment can also provide a blockage for awakening.
Question 17
When you say getting lost in the experience, is that different than -- or merging into the experience. Is that different than a oneness, being at one with all. Are you differentiating between those two?
Question 18
So an enlightened person like yourself would never react to anything? If I got angry and jumped up and down here, or swore at you, you would not react? Might you act, though, would you?
Question 19
It's not conditioned?
Question 20
Do you have a master/disciple relationship with the people here?
Question 21
Where do you draw the line between love and idolatry? Can you differentiate between these two? There's a lot of love towards you, but is there a point where love can go over to sort of idol worship?
Question 22
Some people look at you as a guru, and feel that they can see themselves through you, that you can mirror themselves to themselves.
Question 23
You don't have a capacity to mirror myself back to myself?
Question 24
Edited excerpt: 4min 36sec, questions 24-27 **
Some of your quotes are in the press. Where you say there is no God -- are you saying that there is no God outside of creation, per se?
Question 25
So creation itself is god. We're god, you're god, I'm god, everybody here is god ... The whole ... the whole game is god.
Question 25b
Or source.
Question 26
I guess the force that gives us life or whatever it is, energy.
Question 27
Why do you say make it a quality rather than a noun?
Question 28
You have said Jesus is a madman. You seem to be pushing all other religions out of the way because of this attachment -- because it's keeping people out of the moment?
Question 29
You also say that Jesus was suicidal?
Question 30
But Jesus himself didn't write any of that, his own thoughts.... It was filtered through other people, the disciples particularly, I think that that has happened in Christianity, hasn't it, I mean that misinterpretation?
Question 31
There has also been a lot of talk, Bhagwan, that over the two thousand years, that the Bible has been changed by the church itself. There is talk about references of reincarnation having been taken out. I think four hundred, five hundred....
Question 32
Do you find any redeeming features of the other religions: Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity?
Question 33
You claim to have the only religion though.
Question 34
I'd like to move on to your relationship with your neighbors here in Oregon. You're quoted: "I always loved the American Constitution and now I think it would have been better if I had not come here as I am feeling absolutely disappointed. That Constitution is bogs, the words: freedom, individualism, capitalism, freedom of expression are all just words." That was in the Eugene Register guide of November 6th '84. You seem to have the protection here though. You have been able to put this oasis in very arid land. Why would you say you are disappointed in the Constitution?
Question 35
But the Constitution is really that which will eventually protect your rights. And I know that the government, which is people, have been causing you problems here.
Question 36
You're doing that?
Question 37
Why do you think the neighbors around here have been so disturbed about your moving in?
Question 38
Why are people reacting this way? Why do they feel threatened by your presence here?
Question 39
Do you see the possibility of reconciling your differences with the neighbors around here?
Question 40
You are also quoted somewhere, I have it here. You said that if they would hate us you could deal with hate because you could transmute that into love.
Question 41
But you can't stand being ignored....
Question 42
But you've hardly been ignored by the press, since you broke silence on July 20th.
Question 43
They're not wearing red and orange you say?
Question 44
So you're disappointed in the news coverage that you've been getting?
Question 45
So you don't mind whether it is sensationalized?
Question 46
As long as you are getting coverage?
Question 47
You predicted the start of the apocalypse, ten to fifteen year period of transformation here on earth -- it was supposed to start in '84. Has this started and what are some of the concretes you can point to say that it's started?
Question 48
Well has it happened? In '83 you said it was going to start in '84.
Question 49
It's over. We're in the new age?
Question 50
I'd like to take a quote from the Rajneesh Times of August 16th: "AIDS is the ultimate development of homosexuality. It has no cure. You have gone so far away from nature that there is no way back. You have broken all the bridges behind you. That's the disease AIDS." Now this is attributed to you. Could you expand on that statement?
Question 51
Jerry Falwell says that that is God's revenge on the homosexuals. Now are you saying that homosexuality has moved that far away from nature, not God but nature, that that is nature coming back at the homosexual community?
Question 52
Well how does that differ?
Question 53
It is unnatural for men?
Question 54
In the traditional marriage, monogamous marriage... You say that that lust is within the individual for different partners, different experiences. So then the individual is trying to control these desires so much they must be dissipating a lot of energy. That would happen?
Question 55
This is all through the repression?
Question 56
Are you talking man including both men and women?
Question 57
You predicted that two-thirds of the world's population would die by AIDS. Do you still stand by that?
Question 58
I'd like to get to another quote: you say that that's how we are going to take over the whole America. Are you saying that you are going to be taking over America in the sense of controlling it -- for example, the government, philosophy or just your happiness?
Question 59
Are you sending out a warning you might be moving somewhere else?
Question 60
You just told them. Are you the ringmaster of this circus?
Question 61
When you say: I have the only religion -- I'd like to get back to that. Are you saying: I, Bhagwan, have the only religion. Or are we our own masters, each of us individually?
Question 62
Are you saying that it's within each individual?
Question 63
Clairvoyance, to be able to see into the future -- is that a reality?
Question 64
What are your comments about people that transchannel, what they claim to be, spirit entities?
Question 65
So somebody like Edgar Cayce, the sleeping prophet.
Question 66
Where does it come from? It would appear to be legitimate, something happens. Is it all from the mind?
Question 67
Can you give me some comments on some people here: Ronald Reagan, the president of the United States.
Question 68
Are you aware of the prime minister of Canada, Brian Mulroney?
Question 69
What's a typical day like for you?
Question 70
Are you vegetarian?
Question 71
Is diet important to awaken?
Question 72
Edited excerpt: 12min 07sec, questions 72-74 **
What are your thoughts on the drug problem in the North America society -- cocaine usage, marijuana?
Question 73
But you don't allow drugs here on Rajneeshpuram.
Question 74
But you are saying outside of Rajneeshpuram, it's okay?


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