The Last Testament (Vol 3) ~ 24

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event type interview
date & time 14 Oct 1985 pm
location Sanai Grove, Rajneeshpuram
language English
audio Available, duration 1h 42min. Quality: good.
online audio
video Available, duration 1h 59min. Quality: good, but muffled sound during Osho arriving and leaving, the first 13 minutes a constant audio-noise.
online video
see also
online text find the PDF of this discourse
shorttitle LAST324
Interview. Announcements by Ma Prem Hasya : (beginning inaudible). There is a second interview with Ma Yoga Pratima, not introduced.
CD-ROM on this chapter: Interview with Jeff McMullen, 60 Minutes Australia TV (questions 1-49); and Ma Yoga Pratima (q.50).
Question 1 : Jeff McMullen, 60 Minutes Australia TV
You were right about one thing, Bhagwan. I did come back. One early prophecy that was correct. Bhagwan, as you are the world's greatest showman, maybe you would like to assist us in promoting this performance for Australia with a little national greeting to Australians. What we say is, "Gooday mate! It's good to be back on so minutes!"
Question 2
You told me that you love Sheela, and Sheela said you were the man of her eyes. So is this the end of a great love affair now?
Question 3
It does sound to me it has turned to a hate affair from Sheela.
Question 4
Would you like to have a look at what she has to say to you?
Question 5
We are only going to inflict one more bit of Sheela tape on you. What will you do if Sheela turns up? What would you say to her if you meet again?
Question 6
Will she ask your forgiveness?
Question 7
She says in this second tape that it was you who forgot how to love, that you robbed her of her dignity.
Question 8
She does have an appetite.
Question 9
You had never approved that? Any of that bugging?
Question 10
Not your room, no.
Question 11
The FBI says this place was bugged worse than the CIA. What was the reason for that?
Question 12
And what will you testify about Sheela when you appear before the federal grand jury?
Question 13
But aren't you going to have quite a hard time convincing those authorities that as an enlightened man you didn't know this was happening?
Question 14
So you didn't know Sheela, even though you have known her since she was nineteen?
Question 15
Are you saying she tried to kill a whole city?
Question 16
How did she drug them?
Question 17
That's a tranquilizer?
Question 18
Have you told the police?
Question 19
Bhagwan, it's funny that you mention drugs, because Sheela says that most of the time you're high as a kite. She says you live like a rock 'n' roll star behind those closed doors, that it's sex and drugs and rock 'n' roll. That's Sheela's portrait of you at home.
Question 20
That's a record a lot of other bosses would be proud of.
Question 21
Sheela says, Bhagwan, that you are not interested in the natural state, that in fact you live in a very unreal world full of drugs?
Question 22
An honest answer?
Question 23
I often wondered what was in your eyes.
Question 24
Not my bag, not my bag. You haven't given me an answer, though. I mean, I said like a rock 'n' roll star. A rock 'n' roll star reaches for any drug he can get his hands on to get high.
Question 25
Well, speaking of miracles, Sheela tells me that she is going to buy a hotel in the Black forest for four and a half million dollars. Where is she going to get that money from?
Question 26
A lot of money?
Question 27
That's a lot of money.
Question 28
Not when you have ninety-one Rolls Royces.
Question 29
You do love the rich, Bhagwan.
Question 30
Are the rich as easy, are the rich as gullible? Do they hand over their, all of their, possessions to you as easily as the poor?
Question 31
Well, that is your basic product, isn't it? In Sheela's word, it was an intangible product that you are selling: enlightenment. But she says that really was, in her phrase, a con.
Question 32
Rejoicing even as they hand over their millions?
Question 33
Is that enlightenment?
Question 34
It's enrichment.
Question 35
Your empress, Sheela, seems to admit rather brazenly that she presided over a confidence trick, that people handed over their money thinking they were getting enlightenment, but in fact, she says, you were not terribly interested even in enlightenment. She paints a picture of you as a spoiled Bhagwan.
Question 36
Some of your people now seem confused as to what's happening. I mean, is this ...
Question 37
And what will happen to the Rajneeshees in Australia and around the world?
Question 38
Then you probably won't like what she says about the end of Rajneeshpuram. She says in fact that you plan to sit in that chair and take a very long ride, not in a Rolls Royce, but to take your life.
Question 39
Bhagwan, you ask people to be skeptical. How do we know that you aren't in cahoots with Sheela? How do I know that some months from now you won't be sitting in a hot tub in Sheela's chalet in the Black forest?
Question 40
You go back a long way, you two. How do we know it's still not part of the performance?
Question 41
Do you plan to see Sheela again?
Question 42
Do you think, Bhagwan, that the grand jury process here, given the pressure that has been on your community, do you think that the grand jury process will lay charges against Sheela and the others? Extradite them from Southern Germany?
Question 43
Pretty fantastic stuff, isn't it?
Question 44
What did she want to escape from? Why do you think she was paranoid?
Question 45
Do you have any worries on your mind?
Question 46
Have you ever had a vision, then of being led in handcuffs to jail yourself?
Question 47
Where will you go? If you are washed up in America, where will you go?
Question 48
Bhagwan, you were certainly right about one prophecy, that we would be sitting together. You said I'd be back. Will you still be here a year from now?
Question 49
Thank you very much. To be continued. It reminds me of Gurdjieff's title Meetings with remarkable men. Somewhere down the road I'm sure we'll meet again.
Question 50 : Ma Yoga Pratima
Edited excerpt: 2min 24sec, beginning of question 50 **
Bhagwan, what is objective art? Is creativity somehow related with meditation?


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