Talk:Amrit Dwar (अमृत द्वार)

Sole source regarding the first publication listed here was G**gle Books, whose info was a bit thin and unsupported. There was no cover image or look inside the book.

Both Osho World and osho.com had audiobook offerings, with five chapters with the following titles:

प्रवचन:

1. धर्म है अवयक्तिक अनुभूति

2. विश्वास नहीं, विचार

3. ज्ञान नहीं विस्मय

4. अपने स्वधर्म की खोज

5. दुख नहीं, आनंद

Places offering plain old audio download had six discourses, all running around an hour. What happened to the sixth one in the audiobooks? Possibly its sound was not very good. At any rate, the e-book version has six chapters but the second chapter is very much shorter, perhaps representing all that could be salvaged.

There was a decent amount of date-and-place info found in the e-book, at the ends of the ostensible chapters, followed by what seemed to be titles for the next chapters, but these "titles" were fairly routinized and bore no resemblance to the audiobook titles above. That info is presented below fwiw, and comes from the Osho World e-book, likely the source for most or all of what's out there:

p1 -- Nache Ahobhav Hai Nach (नाचे अहोभाव है नाच)

p16 - Pune dinanka 15 Mar 1968 subah (am) -- Nache Dharm Hai Nach

p25 - date and place data missing -- Nache Jeevan Hai Nach

p42 - Birla Kreeda Kendra, Bombay dinanka 7 May 1967 subah -- Nache Prem Hai Nach

p57 - Ai Baroda (आई बड़ौदा), dinanka 8 Sep 1968 -- Nache Samagrata Hai Nach

p69 - Patrakar-Varta, (पत्रकार-वार्ता, press conference) Bombay, dinanka 21 Sep 1968 -- Nache Shunyata Hai Nach

p98 - tep na. 10 (?) Bombay dinanka 7 May 1968

Place info for the fourth chapter suggests that that talk may have been given in Baroda (GJ, now known as Vadodara). See also Amrit Varsha (अमृत वर्षा), another six-discourse collection of Osho's responses to questions from seekers in Pune and Mumbai. -- Sarlo (talk) 11:42, 17 June 2014 (PDT)

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Jun 2017 update:

We are now blessed with info about OMI's 2016 edition (presumed hard cover on the basis of removable dust jacket). There are some small differences between the audiobook titles and the latest hard copy, detailed below:

प्रवचन:

1. धर्म है वैयक्तिक अनुभूति . . . . 1

2. विश्वास नहीं—विचार . . . . . . 23

3. ज्ञान नहीं—विस्मय . . . . . . . 49

4. अपने स्वधर्म की खोज . . . . . .69

5. दुख नहीं—आनंद . . . . . . . . . 95

The long dashes inserted do seem to be an improvement in making clear the intent of the title, but one word has been changed to its near-opposite in the first chapter/discourse: अवयक्तिक has been changed to वैयक्तिक. Whether this is a distortion or an "improvement" in clarifying Osho's intent can be determined by the reader.

The old title meant "Religion (the way) is (an) impersonal experience". The new one means, according to G**gle Translate, "Religion (the way) is (an) individual experience". There is likely a small subtlety here too that is meant to be conveyed: The letter अ (a) placed in front of an adjective turns it into its opposite; thus its removal (from the old title) would turn "impersonal" back into "personal". The small twist here, the "near-opposite" is that a vowel has also been changed, so that "personal" becomes "individual".

One cannot entirely rely on G**gle Translate for subtlety, i'm here to tell you, but its attempt here might be accurate. And is "individual" -- or "personal", if G**gle has gone off the rails or OMI has made a small typo or whatever -- an "improvement" over "impersonal"? Only a real Hindi reader can know. -- doofus-9 17:19, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

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I see in the above list 7 pages, and only 5 dates. Does this point to 5, 6, or 7 "events"/chapters, e.g. looking at the lay-out?

Can I use the dates for the timeline, or is it too uncertain?

Background: The timline now only has #02 ("1967 or 1968 ?") and #03 ("7 May 1967 pm"). And there are 6 OW audios! --Sugit (talk) 09:09, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

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The frequent format of Hindi e-books is to have the title (if any) on the first page of the chapter and the date and location info (if any) at the end of the chapter, followed immediately by the title (if any) of the next chapter. There is frequently as little as one line of space between one chapter and the next, not always easy to spot, but whatever!

This set-up means there will be one more page noted as having info than there are chapters. So here, 7 info pages = 6 chapters. Dates, titles, etc, are a more random occurrence, so the absence of what should be the full array of titles or dates does not imply anything, except that there is missing info. -- doofus-9 21:51, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

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Some light (source - Sw Jagdish Bharti):

1. 15.03.1968 am, Poona

2. 15.03.1968 pm, Poona (Ques. and Ans.)

3. 16.03.1968 am, Poona

4. 16.03.1968 pm, Poona (Ques. and Ans.)

5. 17.03.1968 am, Poona

Let's stick to 5 chapters and 6th move to unknown info (~ year unknown). The current Timeline has scattered dates...--DhyanAntar 12:34, 20 October 2018 (UTC)

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Conclusion: as this information from Sw Jagdish Bharti is different from the info of the e-book, and we have no indication of the reliability of these sources, for now we are not able to decide what is more likely. --Sugit (talk) 19:31, 25 October 2018 (UTC)

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media status

The timline now only has #02 ("1967 or 1968 ?") and #03 ("7 May 1967 pm"). And there are 6 OW audios! It should be researched what is what. --Sugit (talk) 18:15, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

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I have re-checked the dates and places info in the e-book (to make sure i transcribed it properly) and it still stands. One incorrect e-book page number was updated. There is more info available now though that adds weight to the case that "7 May 1967 am" is wrong for the date for #03. This is info that supports May 7 as part of a series in Indore, from 5-8 May, Ek Naya Dwar (एक नया द्वार). These are data from Shailendra's e-book for Naya Dwar (which should be entered in Naya Dwar's talk page for the sake of keeping our info straight).

Since there was conflicting info and we cannot easily evaluate which is more reliable, there was a good reason to leave things as they were. Now the new data, on Sheet B-1 in Manuscripts ~ Reports, transcribed and evaluated at Manuscripts ~ Reports Timeline Extraction, make the e-book May 7 (am) date for Amrit Dwar #03 more unreliable. I will update the 1967 Timeline accordingly, still leaving it there but with a bigger Question Mark and lower status. #03 now has Jagdish's info saying it was in 1968 and two sources saying the May 7 1967 spot belongs to Ek Naya Dwar. -- doofus-9 22:11, 6 May 2019 (UTC)