Talk:Jeevan Rahasya (जीवन रहस्य)
TOC / track list below is as given by osho.com. Sound quality is said to be not great for some discourses and some audio is missing parts. E-book at Osho World seems to be complete text, ie 13 discourses, though missing almost all chapter titles (#2 is there and #3 is different) and indicating parts here and there unavailable.
- अनुक्रम (TOC):
- 1: परमात्मा को पाने का लोभ
- 2: मौन का द्वार
- 3: स्वरूप का उदघाटन
- 4: प्रार्थना : अद्वैत प्रेम की अनुभूति
- 5: विश्वास—विचार—विवेक
- 6: उधार ज्ञान से मुक्ति
- 7: पिछले जन्मों का स्मरण
- 8: नये वर्ष का नया दिन
- 9: मैं कोई विचारक नहीं हूं
- 10: मनुष्य की एकमात्र समस्या : भीतर का खालीपन
- 11: प्रेम करना ; पूजा नहीं
- 12: धन्य हैं वे जो सरल हैं
- 13: जीवन क्या है
13th talk was given on Osho's birthday 11-12-1970, removed from later edition of Jeevan Rahasya, and included in Mati Kahai Kumhar Su (माटी कहै कुम्हार सूं) as ch.5 (source - Shailendra).--DhyanAntar 11:07, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
Dates and Places info from Jagdish, a few notes below:
- 1: Oct 3 1969 am Srinagar
- 2: Oct 3 1969 pm Srinagar
- 3: Sep 27 1969 pm Srinagar
- 4: Apr 1 1969 . . . . . . (Q&A)
- 5: Mar 8 1969 am Bombay (Q&A re society)
- 6: Mar 9 1969 am Mithapur (near Dwarka GJ)
- 7: Jun 12 1969 am Bhagwan Bhuvan Bombay (re reincarnation)
- 8: Nov 10 1969 om CB Mehta's house Bombay (New Year's message)
- 9: Mar 9 1970 om Lion's Club Rajkot (thoughts and vision)
- 10: . . . . . . . . . . .
- 11: . . . . . . . . . . . (Q&A)
- 12: . . . . . . . . . . .
- 13: Dec 11 1970 pm Woodlands Bombay (Birthday)
The Srinagar dates are curious, since there was a long full camp with talks on Mahaveer going on in Pahalgam at that time. But Srinagar is near Pahalgam, so maybe the location was just "rounded off". Two non-camp Early Talks were also added in the camp time frame, so it was a busy time. Ch 1 and 2 come after the camp, but ch 3 is right in there. In the 15 days of the camp, there are 25 Mahaveer discourses plus the two Early Talks. This is all doable though, so maybe not a big problem to include #3.
And the date and time of #13 are exactly the same as Mati Kahai Kumhar Su (माटी कहै कुम्हार सूं) #5, so the media status claim concerning it below should be checked out. -- doofus-9 07:56, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
Early book with 4 chapter gives some info on last page: Srinagar (Kashmir), 27th September 1969.--DhyanAntar 06:29, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
Yes. Jagdish above has ch 3 of the 13-ch version on that date. This early edition is out of step with lots of things, but it will be good to record their data anyway.
- रहस्य का द्वार
- अस्तित्व का द्वार
- मौन का द्वार
- अंधा खेल
Of these four titles, only one can be found in the 13-ch version, ch 3 here being ch 2 in the 13-er. The titles seem a bit formulaic, which does sometimes happen in "official" editions but more often in others. What is the status of this edition?
Om Rajneesh Dhyan Kendra Prakashan in Bombay is not a publisher we have heard much of, but Sw Ishwar Samarpan IS a familiar figure of the Mumbai publishing scene, having been the name atop the masthead of Jeevan Jagriti Kendra for many years. The copyright attributed to Rajneesh Foundation in Pune would put the publication after the move to Pune in 1974, with Ishwar Samarpan apparently staying behind in Mumbai. It can be reasonably speculated that Ishwarji has published this book -- and others with it, see their books list -- to make up for a lack that he saw, that Jeevan Rahasya, or at least these chapters, had never been published.
Going further ... the wiki has images from at least two of the books in Om's book list, and both are published in 1977, and all nine are based on talks given in 1970 or earlier, save possibly Rajneesh Dhyan Yog (रजनीश ध्यान योग), which is likely a compilation. This strengthens the impression that Ishwar Samarpan had waited long and believed that they would never get published if he didn't do it. And we can also speculate reasonably at this point that 1977 might be a likely pub date for Jeevan Rahasya. It must in any case be 1977 or later, but as likely as not, these books were all done in a flurry.
One more amusing speculation centers on another of these nine titles, which asks the question "Is God Dead?" The language of the title gives it a little personal twist for Ishwarji, since the word for God in this title is "Ishwar", so it could just as well be asking "Is Ishwar Dead?" These publications would seem to assert that, "no, he is not". -- doofus-9 23:51, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
One thing is clear: OW's MP3 #13 is NOT the same as Mati Kahai Kumhar Su #05.
It is not clear to me at all why Mati #5 is not the same as Rahasya #13. There are claims that they are the same, and their titles are the same. There is admittedly a hurdle with their timings but in fact, OW's timings for the 13 talks of Rahasya are significantly different from o.com's timings in about half the talks, and #13 is one of those differences, where OW has 58 min and o.com 48, the same as Mati #5. The comparison for all 13 talks goes, with o.com's timings first, then OW's:
- 1: परमात्मा को पाने का लोभ 53 // 53
- 2: मौन का द्वार 57 // 57
- 3: स्वरूप का उदघाटन (beginning and ending missing) 50 // 49
- 4: प्रार्थना: अद्वैत प्रेम की अनुभूति (incomplete) 57 // 56
- 5: विश्वास—विचार—विवेक (incomplete) 36 // 1h 09
- 6: उधार ज्ञान से मुक्ति 41 // 35
- 7: पिछले जन्मों का स्मरण 38 // 40
- 8: नये वर्ष का नया दिन 34 // 37
- 9: मैं कोई विचारक नहीं हूं (poor quality audio) 29 // 8
- 10: मनुष्य की एकमात्र समस्या: भीतर का खालीपन 71 // 28
- 11: प्रेम करना; पूजा नहीं (beginning missing plus sound dropout) 58 // 1h 10
- 12: धन्य हैं वे जो सरल हैं (beginning missing plus sound dropout) 59 // 58
- 13: जीवन क्या है 48 // 58
-- doofus-9 02:38, 22 May 2019 (UTC)