Talk:Phir Amrit Ki Boond Padi (फिर अमरित की बूंद पड़ी) (11 talks)
Old deliberations
This book, Amrit for short, is one of three Hindi books arising from the World Tour. The other two are Koplen Phir Phoot Aayeen (कोंपलें फिर फूट आईं) and Phir Patton Ki Panjeb Baji (फिर पत्तों की पांजेब बजी). All three titles have the word "Phir," meaning among other things, "again," a small but potentially significant element linking them all thematically.
- These three titles are in fact Osho's only titles to use this word. It is not a stretch to speculate that, as Osho has repeatedly told his people not to repeat things -- i know, i know -- the againness expressed in these titles is something particularly meaningful here. They are his first Hindi books in over four years. They are his last Hindi books ever. He is back in India again, returned to this special place. See also Koplen's talk page for a glimpse of another angle on againness, one that resonates with Osho's "personal" experience. -- added doofus-9 18:22, 4 February 2017 (UTC)
It is evident also in the subtitles, variations of "rediscovering forgotten treasure," of The Diamond Sword, a translation of Amrit and Koplen. All the Phir books were (first) published by "Rajanisadhama Prakasana," evidently a "house" publisher operating only during the Ranch and World Tour times and extending into 1987, likely just for finishing projects.
Two other editions of Amrit have occurred since the first, but both house editions not picked up much by online booksellers. And they both had transliteration differences that interfere with finding them easily, Pari and Padhi for the last word. And cementing their place in the obscurity sweepstakes, the OMI ISBN 9788172612528 is found in only one place online and the ISBN 978-81-8393-245-5 for the Sadhana edition now cannot be found at all. In fact, the Sadhana edition has disappeared completely. I had wanted to verify changing "Sadhana" to "Sadhana Pocket Books" but now cannot and will just trust that is correct. With other similar cases where Osho World has cited "Sadhana" as a publisher, their back page image has "Sadhana Pocket Books."
- One other thing not noticed until the move earlier today relates to the Devanagari form of "Amrit", the change from अमृत to अमरित. The new version is very non-standard, but it has the merit of being both on the cover and in text describing the book in osho.com (and hardly anywhere else, which makes it yet another one of its obscurity issues). G**gle Translate supports this form though, rendering it as Amarit, "immortal". In searches for {अमरित + osho}, they ask, "Do you mean अमृत?" and proceed to serve up lots of अमृत results. अमरित appears only in connection with this book. -- updated doofus-9 16:12, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
- And one last bit relating to this change: All of Osho's other books with "Amrit" in the title retain अमृत. I asked Shailendra about अमृत vs अमरित and he said that अमृत is right in prose, but poetic language is flexible, for example फिर अमरित की बूंद पड़ी is perfectly correct as a line of a famous song. -- doofus-9 17:50, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
Below are two versions of TOCs for Amrit, the first derived from an Osho World pdf e-book, the second from recent hard copy from OMI. A comparison and discussion of implications follows.
The pdf has dates and places embedded in it, seemingly coming at the end of chapters, though there are no real spacing, different fonts, or chapter numbers etc to solidify that. Titles appear as just single lines in the flow of text. The July and August dates are all 1986, talks given at Suraj Prakash's house Sumila in Juhu, Bombay. The November dates are all 1985, from (Kullu) Manali.
- Ch 1: मैं स्वतंत्र आदमी हुं (Main Swatantra Aadmi Hun) ... 31 Jul am (p 20 of 169) ‡‡
- Ch 2: मैं जीवन सिखाता हुं (Main Jeevan Sikhata Hun) ... (no time or place given, p 37) ‡‡
- Ch 3 एक नया ध्रुवतारा (Ek Naya Dhruvatara) ... 2 Aug am (p 53) **
- Ch 4: मेरी दृष्टि सृजनात्मक है (Meri Drishti Srijanatmak Hai) ... 4 Aug am (p 66) **
- Ch 5: जीवन बहती गंगा है (Jeevan Bahati Ganga Hai) ... 6 Aug am (p 84) ‡‡
- Ch 6: मैं तुम्हें इक्कीसवी सदी में ले जा सकता हुं (Main Tumhen Ikkisavi Sadi Mein Le Ja Sakta Hun) ... 10 Aug evg (p 99) **
- Ch 7: भारत के पास असली खजाना है (Bharat Ke Pas Asali Khajana Hai) ... 20 Nov afternoon (p 118)
- Ch 8: करुणा सत्य से अधिक मूल्यवान है (Karuna Satya Se Adhik Mulyavan Hai) ... 23 Nov no time (p 129)
- Ch 9: मैं गुणतंत्र में विशवस करता हूँ (Main Gunatantra Mein Vishwas Karta Hun) ... 24 Nov am (p 140) ‡‡
- Ch 10: एक विशवा व्यापी ध्यान आंदोलन (Ek Vishwa Vyapi Dhyan Andolan) ... 25 Nov am (p 153) ** ‡‡
- Ch 11: मैं आशीष देता रहूंगा (Main Asheesh Deta Rahunga) ... 28 Nov am (p 169) ‡‡
** = Some notes about particular chapters:
Ch 3's title above is the same as OMI's ch 2, ch 4 above the same as OMI's ch 3 and ch 6 above the same as OMI's ch 4, all from Sumila. There are no other title correspondences. And for ch 10, a minor Devanagari issue: i was unable to exactly recreate the rendering of "Vishwa" used in OW's pdf. It may be that fashions have evolved since that doc was made. The current fashion seems to have it as विश्व, the closest i could get to the pdf was विशवा (not a word), with the pdf having the vertical bar removed from "श".
And ‡‡ = These chapters ran into minor time conflicts with some Last Testament discourses. Since the LT times (am/pm) were attested to by the CD-ROM, they shall take precedence for now. And ch 2 was assigned Aug 1 without an am/pm in the Timeline listings.
- विषय सूची (OMI TOC):
- 1 ध्यान प्रक्रिया है रूपांतरण की p 1-14
- 2 एक नया ध्रुवतारा p 15-32
- 3 मेरी दृष्टि सृजनात्मक है p 33-48
- 4 मैं तुम्हे इक्कीसवी सदी मे ले जा सकता हूं p 49-64
- 5 भारत: एक सनातन यात्रा p 65-82
- plus 17 pages of info about Osho, his books, the Resort, etc.
The OMI discourses correspond to audio titles, of which there are also only five. Why are there not eleven? Some partially informed speculation follows. And as mentioned above, three of these five titles correspond to those in the e-book. What about the other two? Where have they come from? For now the only answers are to be found in DIY metaphysics.
The Sumila talks occur on days when there are also talks for Koplen but all are at different times of the day, a comforting and solidifying fact. But there are only five audios for Amrit. What about those other six chapters? Another source has it that both Amrit and Phir Patto are translations, not even original Hindi. That would seem to be at least partially untrue in the case of Amrit, given the Hindi audio, but the six non-audio ones? Amrit's eight "unknown source" dates don't correspond to dates currently known for Last Testament talks but there may be other translation possibilities.
Another possibility is that this e-book was a part or a spin-off of The Diamond Sword project, a translation/compilation of Amrit and Koplen, though it's hard to see where one might go with that. There are no correlations between Koplen's titles and Amrit's. Other ideas welcome. -- updated doofus-9 (talk) 23:25, 9 December 2014 (PST)
A look at the e-book for Phir Patto has turned up some interesting info related to Amrit, and that is: two of its chapters have titles exactly the same as the two "missing" chapters of Amrit, ie the two chapters in the OMI version which are not in the e-book version. It must be stressed that the OMI text version is corroborated by audiobook versions found at both osho.com and Osho World, whereas the e-book versions are found only at OW and copycat sites, so the whole misalignment could be explained as an error in putting the e-books together. Support for this view can be found in the fact that ch 1 of Phir Patto is out of order datewise in its e-book (Oct 27, 1986, in a book whose known other dates are all in order, in Dec 1985) but as the last chapter of Amrit, it is in order.
It seems here however, that such mistakes -- transferring chapters out of one e-book into another, with dates that fit in order (except ch 1 of Phir Patto) -- are unlikely, and it would be just as likely that, say, all the five discourses whose decent-quality audio is available were amalgamated, under one name just to keep it simple. Or any number of other ideas could have been the case. Perhaps someone with the first-edition hard copy can set this straight. -- doofus-9 (talk) 00:11, 28 October 2014 (PDT)
Any idea on which dates those 5 audios (of OW) were ? --Sugit (talk) 18:53, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
None. I believe date info has been removed from Hindi audios, just like the English ones, unless someone has old audios. -- doofus-9 (talk) 22:40, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
Light at the End of the Tunnel
Yr editor has received information from Shailendra about how the confusion has arisen between these two Phir books. It is this: As originally arranged and published in 1987, each book was eleven chapters, consisting mostly of translations, as there weren't actually many talks in Hindi on that part of the World Tour, ie the Himalayas in Nov-Dec 1985 and Bombay in Jul-Oct 1986. In fact, there were only the five with audio. (And that's why there were only five Hindi audios.)
And when the books were republished in 2011/2012, they were completely re-arranged and interchanged, so that:
- Phir Amrit (2) ended up being only five chapters (the five Hindi originals, with chapter titles corresponding to the audio titles) and
- Phir Patton (2) the other seventeen talks, all the translations of English originals which had been in the two books combined the first time around. How about that!
The table below shows the movement between the two editions and two titles. Lines in blue indicate discourses in original Hindi. Note that the new arrangement has put each book in chronological order. -- doofus-9 04:58, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
| First Editions 1987 | Date, Place & Language | 2011/2012 Edition |
|---|---|---|
| Phir Amrit 01 | Jul 31 1986 am, Bombay, English | Phir Patton (2) 15 |
| Phir Amrit 02 | Aug 1 1986 am, Bombay, English | Phir Patton (2) 16 |
| Phir Amrit 03 | Aug 2 1986 am, Bombay, Hindi | Phir Amrit (2) 02 |
| Phir Amrit 04 | Aug 4 1986 am, Bombay, Hindi | Phir Amrit (2) 03 |
| Phir Amrit 05 | Aug 6 1986 am, Bombay, English | Phir Patton (2) 17 |
| Phir Amrit 06 | Aug 10 1986 pm, Bombay, Hindi | Phir Amrit (2) 04 |
| Phir Amrit 07 | Nov 20 1985 om, Manali, English | Phir Patton (2) 01 |
| Phir Amrit 08 | Nov 23 1985, Manali, English | Phir Patton (2) 02 |
| Phir Amrit 09 | Nov 24 1985 am, Manali, English | Phir Patton (2) 03 |
| Phir Amrit 10 | Nov 25 1985 am, Manali, English | Phir Patton (2) 04 |
| Phir Amrit 11 | Nov 28 1985 am, Manali, English | Phir Patton (2) 05 |
| Phir Patton 01 | Oct 27 1986, Bombay, Hindi | Phir Amrit (2) 05 |
| Phir Patton 02 | Dec 1 1985, Manali, English | Phir Patton (2) 06 |
| Phir Patton 03 | Dec 2 1985, Manali, English | Phir Patton (2) 07 |
| Phir Patton 04 | Dec 3 1985, Manali, English | Phir Patton (2) 08 |
| Phir Patton 05 | Dec 5 1985, Manali, English | Phir Patton (2) 09 |
| Phir Patton 06 | Dec 8 1985, Manali, Hindi | Phir Amrit (2) 01 |
| Phir Patton 07 | Dec 24 1985, Manali, English | Phir Patton (2) 10 |
| Phir Patton 08 | Dec 26 1985, Manali, English | Phir Patton (2) 11 |
| Phir Patton 09 | Dec 27 1985, Manali, English | Phir Patton (2) 12 |
| Phir Patton 10 | Dec 28 1985, Manali, English | Phir Patton (2) 13 |
| Phir Patton 11 | Dec 30 1985, Manali, English | Phir Patton (2) 14 |
See also Talk:Press Conferences in Hindi.
have some compassion for the (color)blind. i've changed the background from pale pink to light blue. --Rudra 07:00, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
TOC of 1987 ed. with matching events (Hindi text is complete text of events):
- Ch 1: मैं स्वतंत्र आदमी हूं - The Last Testament (Vol 6) ~ 05 [matches to audio; CD-ROM's text incomplete: missing q.9-25]
- Ch 2: मैं जीवन सिखाता हूं = The Last Testament (Vol 6) ~ 06 [matches to audio; CD-ROM's text incomplete: missing parts of response to Q1, all Q2, parts of response to Q4, all Q5, first part of response to Q6]
- Ch 3: एक नया ध्रुवतारा = Phir Amrit Ki Boond Padi ~ 02
- Ch 4: मेरी दृष्टि सृजनात्मक है = Phir Amrit Ki Boond Padi ~ 03
- Ch 5: जीवन बहती गंगा है - The Last Testament (Vol 6) ~ 07
- Ch 6: मैं तुम्हें इक्कीसवीं सदी में ले जा सकता हूं = Phir Amrit Ki Boond Padi ~ 04
- Ch 7: भारत के पास असली खज़ाना है = The Last Testament (Vol 4) ~ 09 [CD-ROM's text much incomplete]
- Ch 8: करुणा सत्य से अधिक मूल्यवान है = The Last Testament (Vol 4) ~ 13 [matches to audio; CD-ROM's text incomplete: missing Q1-2, 4-5, 8, 11]
- Ch 9: मैं गुणतंत्र में विश्वास करता हूं - The Last Testament (Vol 4) ~ 14 [matches to audio; CD-ROM's text incomplete: missing Q12-14]
- Ch 10: एक विश्व-व्यापी ध्यान आंदोलन = Press Conferences ~ 10
- Ch 11: मैं आशीष देता रहूंगा = The Last Testament (Vol 4) ~ 20
I suspect that whole series is series of interviews, not discourses as stated on event pages and Timeline for Phir Amrit talks. It needs confirmation.--updated, ----DhyanAntar 06:57, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
It seems ch.1 of 5 of Phir Amrit is interview with All India Radio. Hindi series of talks with dates 2 (source document): All India Radio interview (Manali), 1 talk, 8 Dec 1985, 3:30 pm.
Ch.5 of 5 of Phir Amrit is named in the list as "Mera Sapna Mera Bharat". Date matches with TImeline.--DhyanAntar 14:15, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
