Talk:Upasana Ke Kshan (उपासना के क्षण)
Current Understanding
| event | audio, OshoWorld |
audio, Osho.com |
2013 book edition (*1) | Shailendra's PDF | Oshoganga | Osho.com library | Dates & Places |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Upasana Ke Kshan ~ 01 | #1 missing first question itself, talk starts with its response last 3 min transcribed not completely |
1. मन का विसर्जन "sound dropouts" missing first question itself, talk starts with its response last 3 min transcribed not completely |
1. मन का विसर्जन | 1. मन का विसर्जन | 1. आध्यात्मिक भौतिकवाद | 1. मन का विसर्जन | 24 Apr 1964 am, Bombay |
| Upasana Ke Kshan ~ 02 | #2 | 2. विसर्जन की कला "sound dropout" |
2. विसर्जन की कला | 2. विसर्जन की कला | 2. विसर्जन की कला | 2. विसर्जन की कला missing beginning |
25 Apr 1964 pm, Bombay |
| Upasana Ke Kshan ~ 03 | #3 incomplete |
3. श्रद्धा, अश्रद्धा और विश्वास "incomplete" |
3. श्रद्धा, अश्रद्धा और विश्वास | 3. श्रद्धा, अश्रद्धा और विश्वास incomplete |
3. श्रद्धा, अश्रद्धा और विश्वास | 3. श्रद्धा, अश्रद्धा और विश्वास missing last question in English, end incomplete |
1 Apr 1967 om **, Hyderabad |
| Upasana Ke Kshan ~ 04 | #4 incomplete |
4. जीवन क्या है? "incomplete", removed unclear part of questioner's voice before Osho's talking |
4. जीवन क्या है? | 4. जीवन क्या है? incomplete |
4. जीवन क्या है? incomplete |
4. जीवन क्या है? missing last incomplete question, end incomplete |
11 Apr 1968 om **, Bafnaji's house, Poona |
| Upasana Ke Kshan ~ 05 | #5 beginning incomplete |
5. निर्विचार परिपूर्ण शक्ति है "sound dropouts", beginning incomplete |
5. निर्विचार परिपूर्ण शक्ति है | 5. निर्विचार परिपूर्ण शक्ति है | 5. निर्विचार परिपूर्ण शक्ति है | 5. निर्विचार परिपूर्ण शक्ति है beginning incomplete |
24 Jul 1968 am, Dhanpatbhai's house, Bombay |
| Upasana Ke Kshan ~ 06 | #6 beginning is very distorted, perhaps audio plays too fast; incomplete |
6. मन के पार (first part of audio) (*2) incomplete |
6. मन के पार | 6. मन के पार incomplete |
6. मन के पार incomplete |
6. मन के पार incomplete |
11 Mar 1969 om **, Porbandar (GJ) |
| Upasana Ke Kshan ~ 07 |
|
|
7. उपासना का मतलब: पास बैठना | 7. उपासना का मतलबः पास बैठना end incomplete |
7. उपासना का मतलबः पास बैठना end incomplete |
7. उपासना का मतलब: पास बैठना end incomplete |
4 Jun 1969 om **, Udaipur |
| Jeevan Sangeet ~ 03 | #8 | Jeevan Sangeet 3. विचार-क्रांति | Jeevan Sangeet 3. विचार-क्रांति | Jeevan Sangeet 3. विचार की क्रांति | 4 Jun 1969 om**, Udaipur | ||
| Upasana Ke Kshan ~ 08 (*4) | #9 incomplete |
7. जीते-जी मरने की कला (*5) "incomplete" |
8. जीते-जी मरने की कला | 8. जीते-जी मरने की कला missing at least last question that showed in osho.com library version |
8. जीते-जी मरने की कला incompleteness the same as Shailendra's PDF |
8. जीते-जी मरने की कला incomplete |
6 Jun 1969 om **, Udaipur |
| Upasana Ke Kshan ~ 09 | #10 | 8. प्रयास रहित प्रयास (*6) "sound dropouts" |
9. प्रयासरहित प्रयास | 9. प्रयास रहित प्रयास | 9. प्रयास रहित प्रयास | 9. प्रयासरहित प्रयास | 15 Nov 1969 om **, CB Mehta's house, Bombay |
| Upasana Ke Kshan ~ 10 | #11 incomplete? |
9. सफलता नहीं, सुफलता (*6) "incomplete" |
10. सफलता नहीं, सुफलता | 10. सफलता नहीं, सुफलता incomplete? |
10. सफलता नहीं, सुफलता incomplete? |
10. सफलता नहीं; सुफलता incomplete? |
20 Jan 1970 am, Bombay |
| Upasana Ke Kshan ~ 11 | #12 incomplete |
10. अलोभ की दृष्टि (*6) "incomplete" |
11. अलोभ की दृष्टि | 11. अलोभ की दृष्टि incomplete |
11. अलोभ की दृष्टि incomplete |
11. अलोभ की दृष्टि incomplete |
1971, Bombay (*7) |
- Notes
- (*1) Comparing of this edition based only on its chapter titles.
- (*2) This short audio are selling on osho.com together with next audio. In Khajana collection as #6
- (*3) This audio is #7 in Khajana collection and from 12:20 there follows small English part from Early Talks ~ 01:
- "Then you become totally independent. Independence one needs. Outwardly will be gained in any occupation. But an occupation like gardening or farming will do much good. Bodily, mentally and spiritually -- on all layers of life, it will be helpful."
- It is in OshoWorld audio from 12:26. On Osho.com this audio are selling together with previous short audio of Upasana series.
- (*4) Osho gives clue in text for other series that indentified yet.
- "I just gave a lecture on Marx and Buddha, then there was a lot of fuss. Gave a lecture.
- "Question: Where?
- "Now in Jabalpur, a series of three lectures - Marx and Buddha. So my point is that Buddha came ahead of time..."
- Shailendra ji answered to request on 'Marx and Buddha' matter and said "These three talks could not be found", he also asked Adeh Bharti. He says that there are many comments on them in:
- Bharat Ke Jalte Prashna ~ 04 (26 Dec 1969, Ahmedabad);
- Dekh Kabira Roya ~ 14 (16 Apr 1970, Bombay);
- Swayam Ki Satta ~ 06 (19 Sep 1966, Bombay);
- Akath Kahani Prem Ki ~ 05 (25 Sep 1975, Poona)
- Es Dhammo Sanantano Bhag 3 ~ 16 (7 Apr 1976, Poona)
- Es Dhammo Sanantano Bhag 5 ~ 06 (26 May 1977, Poona)
- (*5) It is in Khajana collection as audio #8.
- (*6) These audios are #9-11 in Khajana collection.
- (*7) Source of place is Jagdish (below). Source of date is tape label, which says "7100010, xxxxxx, India".
Deliberations
- विषय सूची (TOC)
- प्रवचन 1: मन का विसर्जन . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1
- प्रवचन 2: विसर्जन की कला . . . . . . . . . . . . 31
- प्रवचन 3: श्रद्धा, अश्रद्धा और विश्वास . . . . . . . 65
- प्रवचन 4: जीवन क्या है? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 99
- प्रवचन 5: निर्विचार परिपूर्ण शक्ति है . . . . . . 131
- प्रवचन 6: मन के पार . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 159
- प्रवचन 7: उपासना का मतलब: पास बैठना . . . 171
- प्रवचन 8: जीते-जी मरने की कला . . . . . . . . . 179
- प्रवचन 9: प्रयासरहित प्रयास . . . . . . . . . . . 197
- प्रवचन 10: सफलता नहीं, सुफलता . . . . . . . . 233
- प्रवचन 11: अलोभ की दृष्टि . . . . . . . . . . . . 265
Free download audio sites show there were 12 discourses, but two consecutive ones were very short and likely were combined when published as a book. Osho World's audiobook has only eleven, with the same titles as above.
Meanwhile, there is a possible anomaly regarding the publisher of the edition shown. Some sites say it is Osho Media International, some Rebel. nbd. And its ISBN 978-81-7261-282-5, is not findable except @ one bookseller. Sigh. -- Sarlo (talk) 23:07, 28 March 2014 (PDT)
Apr 2017 update: A closer look at the audiobook offerings of OW and osho.com show a further anomaly looming regarding the number of talks and/or chapters. O.com in fact is only offering ten mp3's but they specify that #6 and #7, with the same titles as above, are combined into one, with that combined total still only 29 min. They note further that seven of the eleven talks are incomplete -- ¿how incomplete exactly? is of course not known -- and the other four talks have sound dropouts.
So a whole series with poor audio. Meanwhile, the discrepancy between the audio count(s) and the chapters is worth at least a mention. In fact, one bookseller site, Exotic India Art, even supplies a full TOC with page numbers in aid of selling their 2013 OMI edition, so those page numbers have been added to the TOC above. AND, the book's chapter titles match those of the audiobooks, mirabile dictu. And there are only the eleven, so the odd man out is the free audio sites with their twelve. Let's let that slide for now and call it a good day. -- doofus-9 21:45, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
Shailendra states title for ch.9 in his e-book - प्रयास रहित प्रयास, which differs the gap only. --DhyanAntar 04:48, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
Dates and Places info is in from Jagdish and confirms that the magic number is eleven. All the discourses are from early days, with a couple very early, so no surprise that there are some sound issues.
- 1. Apr 24 1964 Bombay
- 2. Apr 25 1964 Bombay
- 3. Apr 1 1967 Hyderabad
- 4. Apr 11 1968 Bafnaji's house, Poona
- 5. Jul 24 1968 Dhanpatbhai's house, Bombay
- 6. Mar 11 1969 Porbandar
- 7. Jun 4 1969 Udaipur
- 8. Jun 6 1969 Udaipur
- 9. Nov 15 1969 CB Mehta's house, Bombay
- 10. Jan 20 1970 Bombay
- 11. unknown date Bombay
Ch.3 is press-conference.--DhyanAntar 16:15, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
Date for ch 9 confirmed by Hindi series of talks with dates (source document), which calls it "Informal Talk by Osho". -0- doofus-9 01:47, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
Osho.com library gives 1964 year.--DhyanAntar 06:43, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
Tape labels confirmes above Jagdish's dates/places. And new source brings new additions:
- 2 time pm
- 3 time om
- 4 time om
- 5 time am
- 7 time om
- 9 (= event ~ 08) time om
- 10 (= event ~ 09) time om
- 11 (= event ~ 10) time am
- 12 (= event ~ 11) 1971 (place unknown)
--updated--DhyanAntar 14:38, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
