Talk:Dhai Aakhar Prem Ka (ढ़ाई आखर प्रेम का): Difference between revisions
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There seem to be a number of variations on the words of the title, both in the Devanagari and transliterations, not so much in connection with this book but with Kabir's doha. We have Dhai and Dhaai, Aakhar, Akhar and Akshar, and Ka and Ke. Whether one search term will find another is quirky, so try a few to find everything. | There seem to be a number of variations on the words of the title, both in the Devanagari and transliterations, not so much in connection with this book but with Kabir's ''doha''. We have Dhai and Dhaai, Aakhar, Akhar and Akshar, and Ka and Ke. Whether one search term will find another is quirky, so try a few to find everything. | ||
The "two and a half" refers to the number of characters in the word Prem in Devanagari, an entirely different sense of "letters" than you might expect in the title of a book of letters, but there you go. It is not known whether this ambiguity in meaning exists in Hindi or if the play on words depends on English meanings. Kabir's ''doha'', or one rendition of it, goes like this: | The "two and a half" refers to the number of characters in the word Prem in Devanagari, an entirely different sense of "letters" than you might expect in the title of a book of letters, but there you go. It is not known whether this ambiguity in meaning exists in Hindi or if the play on words depends on English meanings. Kabir's ''doha'', or one rendition of it, goes like this: | ||
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:One who reads the word of Love, only becomes wise | :One who reads the word of Love, only becomes wise | ||
Aside from the title stuff, all the information for this page can be found in the e-book at Osho World and other sites which have copied it. There are quite a few anomalies in it which may even amount to errors. Possibly the e-book is based on a rough edit. Consideration of its anomalies here will be concerned with dates and | Aside from the title stuff, all the information for this page can be found in the e-book at Osho World and other sites which have copied it. There are quite a few anomalies in it which may even amount to errors. Possibly the e-book is based on a rough edit. Consideration of its anomalies here will be concerned with dates, numbers and names, not the text. | ||
First, numbers: The book purports to have 150 letters, or perhaps it would be better to say it aims at that, as that's how many ''[[Prem Ke Phool (प्रेम के फूल)]]'' has. At any rate, the last one is numbered 150, but there are two places where the counting goes off the rails: There are two number 38s and nothing from 81 to 90. Thus, at this point, the actual count is 141. | First, numbers: The book purports to have 150 letters, or perhaps it would be better to say it aims at that, as that's how many ''[[Prem Ke Phool (प्रेम के फूल)]]'' has. At any rate, the last one is numbered 150, but there are two places where the counting goes off the rails: There are two number 38s and nothing from 81 to 90. Thus, at this point, the actual count is 141. | ||
And dates: There is a basic chronological progression in the e-book, with three significant exceptions. The first eleven are fairly jumbled chronologically but all from the late 60s. Similarly, the last nine are jumbled but all of their own same vintage, late 1970 to Mar 1971. In between, they observe chrono order perfectly (Jan 1966 to Mar 1971) except that when we get to Jan 1971, there are 31 instances of the year suddenly changing to 1972 and back and forth (out of 84 letters total in those twenty days which would be in perfect order except for | And dates: There is a basic chronological progression in the e-book, with three significant exceptions. The first eleven are fairly jumbled chronologically but all from the late 60s. Similarly, the last nine are jumbled but all of their own same vintage, late 1970 to Mar 1971. In between, they observe chrono order perfectly (Jan 1966 to Mar 1971) except that when we get to Jan 1971, there are 31 instances of the year suddenly changing to 1972 and back and forth (out of 84 letters total in those twenty days which would be in perfect order except for the year). The otherwise tight order suggests 1972 is just wrong. There are within January's prodigious output some date typos as well which are relatively easy to discern. See below for a table of dates and recipients, with some notes where needed for clarity. | ||
There is no comparable collection of Hindi letters aside from ''Prem Ke Phool'', so it is somewhat inexplicable why ''Dhai Aakhar'' has languished unsung. Many of the letters' addressees are well-known in the world of sannyas but many are not. It is a varied collection. One interesting fact that emerges is that Osho wrote three letters to [[Ma Anand Madhu]] and [[Ma Dharm Jyoti]] using those names before he actually "officially" gave them sannyas in Manali in September of 1970. In Madhu's case, one of the letters was as early as Jan 1970, so Osho's movement towards giving sannyas must have been both more nuanced and open than the previous "Big Bang" model presented of a sudden event in Manali. Perhaps lots more is waiting to be discovered in these letters, say by actually reading them. -- [[User:Sarlo|doofus-9]] ([[User talk:Sarlo|talk]]) 23:23, 24 December 2014 (PST) | There is no comparable collection of Hindi letters aside from ''Prem Ke Phool'', so it is somewhat inexplicable why ''Dhai Aakhar'' has languished unsung. Many of the letters' addressees are well-known in the world of sannyas but many are not. It is a varied collection. One interesting fact that emerges is that Osho wrote three letters to [[Ma Anand Madhu]] and [[Ma Dharm Jyoti]] using those names before he actually "officially" gave them sannyas in Manali in September of 1970. In Madhu's case, one of the letters was as early as Jan 1970, so Osho's movement towards giving sannyas must have been both more nuanced and open than the previous "Big Bang" model presented of a sudden event in Manali. Perhaps lots more is waiting to be discovered in these letters, say by actually reading them. -- [[User:Sarlo|doofus-9]] ([[User talk:Sarlo|talk]]) 23:23, 24 December 2014 (PST) | ||
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{| class="wikitable" | |||
|-valign="top" | |||
| width="30%" | | |||
1. 18 Jul 1968 Shobhana ([[Ma Yoga Shobhana]] to be)<br> | |||
2. 30 Jun 1968 Dulari<br> | |||
3. 16 Jul 1968 Dulari<br> | |||
4. 16 Dec 1968 Pushpa ([[Ma Dharm Jyoti]] to be)<br> | |||
5. 15 Jun 1969 Durga<br> | |||
6. 29 Jul 1969 Anasuya<br> | |||
7. 17 Oct 1969 [[Jayantibhai]]<br> | |||
8. 4 Jul 1966 Chandan<br> | |||
9. 28 Jun 1968 Shobhana<br> | |||
10. long, undated, Mounu (pet name for Osho's Jabalpur cousin-caretaker who became [[Ma Yoga Kranti]]) | |||
|width="30%" | | |||
11. 29 Sep 1966 Jayantibhai<br> | |||
12. 27 Jan 1966 Jayantibhai<br> | |||
13. 1 Nov 1966 Patralala Gangawala <br> | |||
14. 2 Nov 1966 Vasumati<br> | |||
15. 5 Feb 1968 Chandan<br> | |||
16. 6 Mar 1968 Shobhana<br> | |||
17. 5 Apr 1968 Nirmala<br> | |||
18. 15 May 1968 Chandan<br> | |||
19. 19 Jul 1968 Pushpa<br> | |||
20. 17 Aug 1968 Shobhana | |||
|width="30%" | | |||
21. 10 Sep 1968 Shobhana<br> | |||
22. 13 Nov 1968 Laharachand (Laherubhai?) <br> | |||
23. 31 Nov (sic) 1968 Chandan<br> | |||
24. 12 Dec 1968 Kamala<br> | |||
25. 23 Dec 1968 Pushpa<br> | |||
26. 24 Jan 1969 Vasumati<br> | |||
27. 15 Mar 1969 Darshan<br> | |||
28. 29 Nov 1969 Darshan<br> | |||
29. 2 Dec 1969 Dharmashta ([[Ma Anand Madhu]] to be) <br> | |||
30. 10 Dec 1969 Nadubhai<br> | |||
|-valign="top" | |||
| [31.] 12 Jan 1970 Madhu **<br> | |||
32. 5 Feb 1970 Madhu **<br> | |||
33. 7 Sep 1970 Dharmjyoti **<br> | |||
34. 17 Sep 1970 "Mounu Kranti"<br> | |||
35. 17 Oct 1970 Dharmjyoti<br> | |||
36. 25 Oct 1970 [[Sw Krishna Chaitanya]]<br> | |||
37. 25 Oct 1970 [[Ma Yoga Prem (2)|Ma Yoga Prem]] (Ajol)<br> | |||
38. 26 Oct 197 [sic] Ma Yoga Prem (Ajol) <br> | |||
38. [sic] 26 Oct 1970 Kashinarayana (M, Pune) ‡ letter very similar to preceding #38, error could be numbering or attribution in either <br> | |||
39. 11 Nov 1970 Nirbhaya (M, Kolkata) <br> | |||
40. 11 Nov 1970 Dharmjyoti <br> | |||
| 41. 12 Nov 1970 Mathura (M, Patna)<br> | |||
42. 14 Nov 1970 Dinesh (M, Bhilai)<br> | |||
43. 19 Nov 1970 Dharmjyoti<br> | |||
44. 13 Dec 1970 Tara (F, Mumbai)<br> | |||
45. 13 Dec 1970 Savitri (F, Balasar)<br> | |||
46. 13 Dec 1970 PD Ingale (M, Sangamner)<br> | |||
47. 9 Jan 1971 LR Pandita (M, Khandwa)<br> | |||
48. 9 Jan 1971 [[Ma Yoga Maya]]<br> | |||
49. 10 Jan 1971 [[Ma Yoga Yasha]]<br> | |||
50. 11 Jan 1971 Jayamala (F, Pune)<br> | |||
| 51. 11 Jan 1971 [[Ma Yoga Bhagawati]] ‡ month = 11, probably a typo extra 1, assuming Jan <br> | |||
52. 11 Jan 1971 Jarnalal (M, Nimach)<br> | |||
53. 11 Jan 1972 Sw Krishna Chaitanya<br> | |||
54. 11 Jan 1971 [[Ma Yoga Veena]]<br> | |||
55. 12 Jan 1972 YS Dharmadhikari (M, Jabalpur) <br> | |||
56. 12 Jan 1971 [[Sw Yoga Murti]]<br> | |||
57. 13 Jan 1971 Guna (F, Mumbai)<br> | |||
58. 13 Jan 1971 Vandana (F, Pune)<br> | |||
59. 13 Jan 1971 Shirish (M, Mumbai)<br> | |||
60. 14 Jan 1972 Sw Krishna Chaitanya <br> | |||
|--valign="top" | |||
| 61. 14 Jan 1972 Kamalesh (M, Raipur) <br> | |||
62. 14 Jan 1971 Janakaraya (M, Jamnagar) <br> | |||
63. 14 Jan 1972 Sw Yoga Murti <br> | |||
64. 14 Jan 1972 Sw Yoga Murti ‡ seems to be a different letter <br> | |||
65. 15 Jan 1972 Janakaraya (M, Jamnagar) <br> | |||
66. 15 Jan 1972 [[Sw Yoga Chinmaya]] <br> | |||
67. 15 Jan 1972 Sw Yoga Chinmaya ‡ seems to be a different letter <br> | |||
68. 15 Jan 1972 Sw Krishna Chaitanya <br> | |||
69. 15 Jan 1972 [[Ma Yoga Nivedipa]] <br> | |||
[70.] 15 Jan 1972 Sw Krishna Chaitanya ‡ seems to be a different letter <br> | |||
| 71. 15 Jan 1972 Ma Anand Madhu <br> | |||
72. 16 Jan 1972 Omprakash (M, Jalandhar) <br> | |||
73. 16 Jan 1972 Hiralalji (M, Udaipur) <br> | |||
74. 16 Jan 1972 Meera <br> | |||
75. 16 Jan 1972 Tripta (F, Jalandhar) <br> | |||
76. 16 Jan 1972 Sw Akshay Bharti <br> | |||
77. 16 Jan 1972 Janakaraya (M, Jamnagar) <br> | |||
78, 16 Jan 1972 Vidhacharana (M, Mumbai) <br> | |||
79. 16 Jan 1972 Mathura (M, Patna) <br> | |||
80. 16 Jan 1972 Kanhaiya (M, Jalana) <br> | |||
| ‡ yes, 81-90 are missing, unless following are all typos | |||
|--valign="top" | |||
| 91. 22 Jan 1972 Gopal (M, Beawar) <br> | |||
92. 22 Jan 1972 Sw Krishna Chaitanya <br> | |||
93. 22 Jan 1972 Savitri (F, Balasar) <br> | |||
94. 22 Jan 1972 Shirish (M, Mumbai) <br> | |||
95. 22 Jan 1972 Krishnadatta (M, Mumbai) <br> | |||
96. 22 Jan 1971 Bakul (F, Mumbai) <br> | |||
97. 22 Jan 1971 Shiv (M, Jabalpur, [[Sw Ageh Bharti]] to be?) <br> | |||
98. 23 Jan 1972 a sadhak, Pune <br> | |||
99. 23 Jan 1972 Chinu (M, Ahmedabad) ‡ name presented as both Chinu and Chuni. Went with Chinu because #115 is Chinu from Ahmedabad <br> | |||
100. 23 Jan 1971 [[Ma Dharm Samadhi]] <br> | |||
| 101. 12 Jan 1972 Shiv (M, Jabalpur) <br> | |||
102. 23 Jan 1971 Ma Yoga Samadhi ‡ seems to be a different letter, and may well be a different Samadhi: this one is from Rajkot, #100 (Dharm) is from Mumbai <br> | |||
[103.] 23 Jan 1971 Vimala (F, Nimach) <br> | |||
104. 23 Jan 1971 Aruna (F, Amritsar) <br> | |||
105. 23 Jan 1971 Bakul (F, Mumbai) <br> | |||
106. 23 Jan 1971 Trilochan (M, Satna) <br> | |||
107. 23 Jan 1971 Narayana (M, Jabalpur) <br> | |||
108. 23 Jan 1971 Madhu (F, Ghatkopar) ‡ not identified as Ma Anand Madhu but Madhu Shah. OTOH, MAM's first letter (#29) is to Dharmashta Shah of Ajol <br> | |||
[109.] 23 Jan 1971 Savitri (F, Balasar) ‡ date rendered in digits as 23-171971, first 7 assumed to be typo for - <br> | |||
110. 24 Jan 1971 Dataram (M, Mumbai) <br> | |||
| 111. 24 Jan 1971 Jayshri (F, Dwarka) <br> | |||
112. 24 Jan 1971 Pushkar (M, Dwarka) <br> | |||
113. 24 Jan 1971 Jayanti (F, Mumbai) ‡ date rendered in digits as 24-171971, first 7 assumed to be typo for - <br> | |||
114. 24 Jan 1971 BL Naga (M, Jabalpur) ‡ date rendered as 24 1971, Jan assumed <br> | |||
115. 24 Jan 1971 Chinu (M, Ahmedabad) <br> | |||
116. 24 Jan 1971 Savitri (F, Balasar) <br> | |||
117. 24 Jan 1971 Kedar (M, Nimach) <br> | |||
118. 24 Jan 1971 Satish (M, unknown loc, France?) <br> | |||
119. 25 Jan 1971 Sevantilal (M, Ahmedabad) <br> | |||
120. 25 Jan 1971 Indrajit (M, Bikaner) <br> | |||
|--valign="top" | |||
| 121. 25 Jan 1971 Prabodha (M, Mumbai) <br> | |||
122. 25 Jan 1971 Arun (M, Mumbai) ‡ date rendered in digits as 25-171971, first 7 assumed to be typo for - <br> | |||
123. 25 Jan 1971 PF Shah (M, England) <br> | |||
[124.] 25 Jan 1971 Madhav (M, Jabalpur) <br> | |||
125. 25 Jan 1971 Manju (F, Mumbai) <br> | |||
126. 25 Jan 1971 Samdarshi (M, Mareth) <br> | |||
127. 25 Jan 1971 Kedar (M, Nimach) <br> | |||
128. 25 Jan 1971 Shyam (M, Akola) <br> | |||
129. 26 Jan 1971 Ramesh (M, Indore) <br> | |||
130. 26 Jan 1971 Madhav (M, Jabalpur) <br> | |||
| 131. 26 Jan 1971 Kantilal (M, Dhanbad) <br> | |||
132. 26 Jan 1972 Sw Anand Murti <br> | |||
133. 26 Jan 1971 Bahadursinha (M, Indore) ‡ date rendered in digits as 25-171971, first 7 assumed to be typo for - <br> | |||
134. 26 Jan 1971 Madanalal (M, Amritsar) <br> | |||
135. 26 Jan 1971 Kedar (M, Nimach) <br> | |||
136. 27 Jan 1971 Ma Yoga Samadhi <br> | |||
137. 27 Jan 1971 Govardhanalal (M, Bangalore) <br> | |||
138. 27 Jan 1971 Mishrilal (M, Dhamtari) <br> | |||
139. 29 Jan 1971 Pahma (F, Pune) <br> | |||
140. 29 Jan 1971 Kedar (M, Nimach) ‡ date was entered as 21, assuming a typo meant to be 29 <br> | |||
| 141. 7 Mar 1971 Bharat (M, Ahmednagar) <br> | |||
142. 26 Feb 1971 Vasanti (F, Kheda?) <br> | |||
143. 10 Mar 1971 Urmila (F, Gorakhpur) ([[Ma Anand Urmila]]?) <br> | |||
144. 29 Jan 1971 Vinukumar (M, Patan) <br> | |||
145. 12 Mar 1971 Urmila (F, Gorakhpur) <br> | |||
146. 17 Feb 1971 Rama (M, Ahmedabad) <br> | |||
147. 11 Feb 1971 Urmila (F, Gorakhpur) <br> | |||
148. 16 Feb 1971 Vinay (M, Patan) <br> | |||
149. 6 Mar 1971 Vimala (F, Nimach) <br> | |||
150. 30 Dec 1970 Dalajit (M, Jalandhar) <br> | |||
|} |
Revision as of 06:37, 21 February 2015
There seem to be a number of variations on the words of the title, both in the Devanagari and transliterations, not so much in connection with this book but with Kabir's doha. We have Dhai and Dhaai, Aakhar, Akhar and Akshar, and Ka and Ke. Whether one search term will find another is quirky, so try a few to find everything.
The "two and a half" refers to the number of characters in the word Prem in Devanagari, an entirely different sense of "letters" than you might expect in the title of a book of letters, but there you go. It is not known whether this ambiguity in meaning exists in Hindi or if the play on words depends on English meanings. Kabir's doha, or one rendition of it, goes like this:
- Pothi Padh Padh Kar Jag Mua, Pandit Bhayo Na Koye,
- Dhai Aakhar Prem Ke, Jo Padhe so Pandit Hoye
- Reading books everyone died, none became any wise,
- One who reads the word of Love, only becomes wise
Aside from the title stuff, all the information for this page can be found in the e-book at Osho World and other sites which have copied it. There are quite a few anomalies in it which may even amount to errors. Possibly the e-book is based on a rough edit. Consideration of its anomalies here will be concerned with dates, numbers and names, not the text.
First, numbers: The book purports to have 150 letters, or perhaps it would be better to say it aims at that, as that's how many Prem Ke Phool (प्रेम के फूल) has. At any rate, the last one is numbered 150, but there are two places where the counting goes off the rails: There are two number 38s and nothing from 81 to 90. Thus, at this point, the actual count is 141.
And dates: There is a basic chronological progression in the e-book, with three significant exceptions. The first eleven are fairly jumbled chronologically but all from the late 60s. Similarly, the last nine are jumbled but all of their own same vintage, late 1970 to Mar 1971. In between, they observe chrono order perfectly (Jan 1966 to Mar 1971) except that when we get to Jan 1971, there are 31 instances of the year suddenly changing to 1972 and back and forth (out of 84 letters total in those twenty days which would be in perfect order except for the year). The otherwise tight order suggests 1972 is just wrong. There are within January's prodigious output some date typos as well which are relatively easy to discern. See below for a table of dates and recipients, with some notes where needed for clarity.
There is no comparable collection of Hindi letters aside from Prem Ke Phool, so it is somewhat inexplicable why Dhai Aakhar has languished unsung. Many of the letters' addressees are well-known in the world of sannyas but many are not. It is a varied collection. One interesting fact that emerges is that Osho wrote three letters to Ma Anand Madhu and Ma Dharm Jyoti using those names before he actually "officially" gave them sannyas in Manali in September of 1970. In Madhu's case, one of the letters was as early as Jan 1970, so Osho's movement towards giving sannyas must have been both more nuanced and open than the previous "Big Bang" model presented of a sudden event in Manali. Perhaps lots more is waiting to be discovered in these letters, say by actually reading them. -- doofus-9 (talk) 23:23, 24 December 2014 (PST)
beloved Sarlo,
marry christmas to you!
I'm an avid reader of your TALK pages and i'm amazed day after day how you (seem) to keep on top of this dog's breakfast of Hindi discourses.
looking forward to another year of total insanity and it's ultimate cure : Sarlo
love -Rudra --Rudra (talk) 06:53, 26 December 2014 (PST)
Namaste!
As the sign in the outhouse says, "We aim to please, you aim too, please."
Yes, let's have another fine year of insanity in Rudra's House of Mirrors. Blessings to all who read and write here.
Love, Sarlo -- doofus-9 (talk) 08:13, 27 December 2014 (PST)
1. 18 Jul 1968 Shobhana (Ma Yoga Shobhana to be) |
11. 29 Sep 1966 Jayantibhai |
21. 10 Sep 1968 Shobhana |
[31.] 12 Jan 1970 Madhu ** 32. 5 Feb 1970 Madhu ** |
41. 12 Nov 1970 Mathura (M, Patna) 42. 14 Nov 1970 Dinesh (M, Bhilai) |
51. 11 Jan 1971 Ma Yoga Bhagawati ‡ month = 11, probably a typo extra 1, assuming Jan 52. 11 Jan 1971 Jarnalal (M, Nimach) |
61. 14 Jan 1972 Kamalesh (M, Raipur) 62. 14 Jan 1971 Janakaraya (M, Jamnagar) |
71. 15 Jan 1972 Ma Anand Madhu 72. 16 Jan 1972 Omprakash (M, Jalandhar) |
‡ yes, 81-90 are missing, unless following are all typos |
91. 22 Jan 1972 Gopal (M, Beawar) 92. 22 Jan 1972 Sw Krishna Chaitanya |
101. 12 Jan 1972 Shiv (M, Jabalpur) 102. 23 Jan 1971 Ma Yoga Samadhi ‡ seems to be a different letter, and may well be a different Samadhi: this one is from Rajkot, #100 (Dharm) is from Mumbai |
111. 24 Jan 1971 Jayshri (F, Dwarka) 112. 24 Jan 1971 Pushkar (M, Dwarka) |
121. 25 Jan 1971 Prabodha (M, Mumbai) 122. 25 Jan 1971 Arun (M, Mumbai) ‡ date rendered in digits as 25-171971, first 7 assumed to be typo for - |
131. 26 Jan 1971 Kantilal (M, Dhanbad) 132. 26 Jan 1972 Sw Anand Murti |
141. 7 Mar 1971 Bharat (M, Ahmednagar) 142. 26 Feb 1971 Vasanti (F, Kheda?) |