Talk:Glimpses of a Golden Childhood
About the Dates
Dates given for this book are fairly specific, Nov 1981 - Feb 1982, the most specific of any of the three "NO" books, but what is the source for that? The CD-ROM has all three in 1984 fwiw, but that may not be much either. (It says "from 1982" at the beginning of BIHL but for each chapter it indicates 1984, Lao Tzu Grove, Rajneeshpuram.) Parmartha says they all happened in late Pune One, inferred from then-present references to being in India in the text of Glimpses. And so on around the net.
I note that none of these three books has made it into a Timeline page, not even as a "sometime in 19xx". I am thinking to put them in the Unknowns page, possibly the only English originals and certainly the most recent of all the books there. What do people think of that? And what about a page linking the three books thematically? Would that be out of place? -- doofus-9 (talk) 19:15, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
The info "Nov 1981 - Feb 1982" was entered by Rudra in when this page was made in 2008.
Maybe the intro is also of use in a series-page. (We indeed do those, like Osho Life Essentials (series). The page-names all end with " (series)".)
But "Nov 1981 - Feb 1982" is of course different from "early 1981".
Well isn't that something! So, according to Devageet's intro, Parmartha was right. But according to Abhi's intro, it was late 1981 at the ranch, closer to Rudra's dates. One might say that Devageet was personally there and therefore more reliable, but it is not at all unlikely that, in the era of the first publication, Devageet may have felt constrained to set the talks prior to Osho's silent period, or this could have been one of the changes made by "the publisher," ie Sheela. And one might find it difficult to imagine that Abhi in his time would have a reason to make something up that contradicted Devageet's account.
Not that such inspired analysis nails it. I'd say we are still left with a nebulosity for dates, but it does seem that they all came together in one stretch, in the order stated. And in fact Devageet's version would entail cramming an awful lot of sessions into the already fairly busy time in Pune One before the silent period, so best to stick with the current version at least provisionally. I'll bang something together for a "series" page. -- doofus-9 (talk) 17:25, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
It certainly does. We can always doubt one version or another based on our whatever current conspiracy theory but really we can't know and in the end have to choose. The Ranch version has a lot more going for it, especially now that Devageet has revised himself. -- doofus-9 (talk) 18:28, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
i took my dates from Satrakshita;s website at
I had a conversation with Satrakshita about his sources. He says that this comes from a database that has been published by Sw. Anand Rudra. On my reply that Rudra says that he has it from Satrakshita, he says:
- Ha ha, I did not know he had it from me. Anyway, so now there are two reliable sources that you can refer to ;-)
Ha ha indeed. Well, one of them got it from somewhere (the ether?) and the other copied, and now we have "reliable". Still better than nothing though and fits with the rest of it. -- doofus-9 (talk) 17:07, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
￼so it's settled. it's the ranch...
"Back at the house, Osho was having a lot of trouble with His teeth. He had nine root canals and while this treatment was happening He, of course, made the best of it, and while under the influence of the dentist's gas, He talked. It was not an easy task for Osho's dentist, Devageet, to work on a mouth that is most of the time moving. Osho talked three books worth. We realised that something was worth recording here, and so recorded all He said. The three books, Glimpses of a Golden Childhood, Books I Have Loved, and Notes of a Madman are extraordinary."
- (Shunyo, Diamond Days with Osho, p 74)
I have been looking at Devageet's book, Osho: The First Buddha in the Dental Chair. About the dates, he says (now), "It took three years to type and edit the notes from the dental chair. Finally, at the end of 1984, they were ready for publication" (p 142). There is enough wiggle room in this "three years" to say that ending in Feb or even Mar 1982 would fit just fine, especially as he may be counting from when the books started.
About the beginning, and the number of sessions in each "series" for the three books -- Madman had two series, the others one each -- Devageet says: "At the beginning of the sixth note-taking session, Osho quietly announced that series one had now been completed, and series two was about to begin. The new series was centered around the ancient Tibetan mantra, Om Mani Padme Hum" (p 131). Then (p 132), "Six sessions later, he just as suddenly announced the start of the third series of notes." That would be the beginning of BIHL. "At the opening of the series, he had declared that he wanted to talk about the same number of books as the years of his life." Devageet reports that because of the counting shenanigans (Osho's game to confuse him), the Books sessions kept getting extended and eventually came to comprise 167 books. OTOH, Devageet reports he was 51 at the time, which would place these sessions sometime after his birthday in 1982, a year later. So something is not adding up here. Perhaps Devageet has got permanently confused about numbers or he too is playing Osho's game.
Most curiously, we have in Glimpses a reflection or even re-enactment of the 50/51 conundrum (see below, in the "Missing Session" section). The first edition of Glimpses had 51 chapters, one of which disappeared in later editions so that there were only 50. Since that chapter may have been bogus, we might imagine that one of Devageet's reported years was also bogus. Who knows?
Devageet confirms that no audio record survived of these sessions. For the first session of Madman, he took notes without any recording but thereafter requested that Osho permit recording, to verify notes, which Osho did but stipulating that each session be verified straight away so that the tape could be re-used for the next session. Since not infrequently there were two sessions a day, that kept him busy, especially as he was a novice typist.
About the total number of sessions, it is a near-safe bet that they happened almost every day for a period, with "sometimes" two sessions a day. Thus, 12 + 16 + 50 = 78 sessions (or 13 + 16 + 51 = 80, depending what you believe) might have taken as little as two months for them all, so it could easily have been mid-Dec 1981 to end of Feb 1982 for the lot, not just Glimpses.
More material from Devageet's book will be developed at the page for that book, coming sometime. -- doofus-9 07:22, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
And one more snippet re dates from Devageet: On p 169 he says, "In February 1982, Osho finished dictating from the dental chair the notes that would later form three books", naming the three Nitrous books. Well okay! Not that this is God's Truth, but it fits well and is sort of "consistent" with the Rudra/Satrakshita source, even if not with everything else Devageet has said. Oh well, whatever. -- doofus-9 07:34, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
About the Missing Session 29
About this Session 29, which is only found in the 1985 edition, missing in the later editions:
It contains a story about astrologers that predicted Osho would not survive 7 years, or else he could die in 1984. And about meetings with Pavaharibaba, Madanmohan Malvia, Ambalal Patel (Bapuji, Sw Swarupananda Bharti) and his wife, whom Osho called Ba (mother). Osho would have lived with them for three years. Through Bapuji he met with Mahatma Gandhi, Muhammadali Jinnah, J. Krishnamurti, Gautama Sharatchandra Chatterji, and Bapaji, Swami Nikhilananda.
Was this related to the (fake!) story about adoption that was told to US INS officials?
The Rajneesh Times (USA) vol 2 #23 = Feb 3, 1984 :
- (Main header on the front page) Prediction of Bhagwan's destiny fulfilled - early life revealed
- PORTLAND - In a brief and stunning announcement, Swami Swarupananda (Ambalal Chaturbhai Patel) dropped the veil which has concealed the early life of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh. Up to this time, little was known about Bhagwan's early life other than the names of His parents and His close connection to His maternal grandfather. The rest, according to His photobiography, The Sound of Running Water, was gossip and rumors.
- In his amazing revelation, Swarupananda, then a tutor, told how he had met a young cloth merchant who was worried about the astrologers' predictions concerning his firstborn son.
- The astrologers had refused to cast His chart, an ominous sign in India, saying only that the boy's life would be very short - unless He were adopted by someone else willing to care for Him.
- If He were adopted, the prediction said, the boy would have a relatively long life. Furthermore, the astrologers told His father that his son would have the "great personality and light of a leader and path indicator for the world such as Buddha or Mahavira."
- Swarupananda and the boy's father then arranged for a Hindu-Jain ceremony performed by a Brahmin, legally an adoption proceeding, which took place January 12, 1936, when the boy was 4 years old.
- The father wrote in the document that the boy was "placed in your lap pursuant to legal formalities and by placing him in your lap as the adopted son, you have accepted Rajneeshchandra Mohan as your own son."
- The legal adoption has been kept secret for 48 years because of a promise Swarupananda made to the boy's father. Now, he says, he is in fragile health and wants to tell the story before he dies.
- In a press conference in Portland, Swarupananda, affectionately known as Bapuji meaning father or dad, released the startling document, calling it "a revelation that will change the course of history". Photographs of the document were released along with a translation.
- Written in the Gujarati language, the words of the adoption proceeding are inscribed in ink on a one-rupee stamp paper used for legal documents in the days when England ruled India - the photograph of King George is printed on the paper. The document is signed by both men and witnesses, including Bhagwan's natural mother, Ma Amrit Saraswati Jain.
- The document has been carefully preserved by Swarupananda and his wife Swarupa for nearly half a century, and has now been translated by a (Continued on page A5) (Continued from page A1) nationally known immigration lawyer from New York City.
- Swarupananda reminisced to The Rajneesh Times how Bhagwan was a loving and contented child, preferring to spend His days in nature, and who never played with toys. He was happy living in a cottage by the sea and always accepted gratefully whatever food was offered to Him, never expressing preferences for one food over another.
- After the astrologers' prediction had been fulfilled, Bhagwan entered school and gradually became more independent.
- Swarupananda kept the secret for 48 years so family members would not be distressed. Now he has revealed the truth, he says he "will live with Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh proudly, without living a secret and in total love."
- The further significance of the adoption lies in the fact that Swarupananda has held permanent residency status in the United States since 1973. "Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh is my adopted son," said Swarupananda, "and as He is unmarried, I have petitioned the Immigration and Naturalization Service for His permanent residency in the United States.
- "I am overjoyed and grateful for this opportunity to enable my beloved son, Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, to remain in the United States of America, where His religious vision and His health can flourish," he added.
- "Although He should be admitted to the U.S. as the world-renowned religious teacher He has become, His admission as my unmarried son should be automatic. Now we are united and living together again in total love and gratitude, and, as the astrologers predicted fifty years ago, Bhagwan has become the path indicator, the Buddha, He was predicted to become."
- Page A5: Full translation of the adoption document
- Page A5: Ma Anand Sheela: historical records discovered
- Page A5: Swami Swarupananda speaks: true identity of Bhagwan's legal parents revealed
The Rajneesh Times (USA) vol 2 #24 = Feb 10, 1984 :
- Front page: Smiling faces tell adoption story at U.S. Immigration
- (Photo caption) Everyone was in good humor at Portland's immigration office Thursday, February 2, when Swami Swarupananda petitioned for permanent residence in the USA on behalf of his adopted son, Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh. Left to right: Ma Swarupa, Swami Swarupananda, Ma Anand Sheela, attorney Jeffrey Noles, Sw Krishna Deva, attorney Sw Premsukh, two bystanders and a desk clerk. Afterwards a press conference was held at Hotel Rajneesh and then the party traveled back to Rajneeshpuram where a big celebration was held in Rajneesh Mandir meditation hall. More pictures and full story on B6 and B7.
- Front page: U.S. immigration calls Swami Swarupananda for interview
- Page B6-B7: Rajneeshees celebrate discovery of Bhagwan's adoption
- The news that Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh is the adopted son of Swami Swarupananda, natural father of Ma Anand Sheela, swept like a gale of good tidings through the Rajneesh community last Thursday, February 2. ...
- Page B6-B7: Biography of Bhagwan gives clues to secret
- Page B6-B7: Adoption a key factor in the lives of many Masters
Some hot stories there, what a hoot! Fixed some typos but wondered if i should leave "gooed tidings" alone. Ya never know, perhaps was intended. And perhaps the thing should have its own page. Great stuff!! -- doofus-9 (talk) 07:19, 29 July 2015 (UTC)