Talk:Panth Prem Ko Atpato (पंथ प्रेम को अटपटो)

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Current Understanding

event audio,
OshoWorld
audio,
Osho.com
1980 book ed. Shailendra's PDF Oshoganga Osho.com library Other book editions Dates & Places
Dharm Aur Anand ~ 07 #1 Dharm Aur Anand 7. भीतर है आनंद 1. भीतर है आनन्द
Surendranagar, Gujarat, 25 Jul 1965
Dharm Aur Anand 7. भीतर है आनंद 25 Jul 1965 am, Wadhwan, Surendranagar
Jeevan Kranti Ke Sutra ~ 02 Jeevan Kranti Ke Sutra #2 Jeevan Kranti Ke Sutra 2. दूसरा सूत्र: जीवन-ऊर्जा के प्रति सजगता 4. काम-ऊर्जा का ऊर्ध्वगमन
missing first 2 sentences
Cross Maidan, Bombay, 31 May 1969
Jeevan Kranti Ke Sutra 2. जीवन ऊर्जा के प्रति सजगता Jeevan Kranti Ke Sutra 2. जीवन ऊर्जा के प्रति सजगता Jeevan Kranti Ke Sutra 2. काम-ऊर्जा का ऊर्ध्वगमन Jeevan Kranti Ke Sutra (जीवन क्रांति के सूत्र), 2018ed., 2. काम-ऊर्जा का ऊर्ध्वगमन 31 May 1969 pm, Cross Maidan, Bombay
Panth Prem Ko Atpato ~ 01 #2
beginning a little incomplete
1. ब्रह्मचर्य और समाधि
beginning a little incomplete and last sentence incomplete too
5. ब्रह्मचर्य और समाधि
Bombay, 20 Jun 1970
1. ब्रह्मचर्य और समाधि 1. ब्रह्मचर्य और समाधि 1. ब्रह्मचर्य और समाधि 20 Jun 1970, Bombay (*1)
Panth Prem Ko Atpato ~ 02 #3 2. मनुष्य विक्षिप्त क्यों है? 7. मनुष्य विक्षिप्त क्यों है
missing second part
Ahmedabad, 23 Dec 1969
2. मनुष्य विक्षिप्त क्यों है? 2. मनुष्य विक्षिप्त क्यों है? 2. मनुष्य विक्षिप्त क्यों है? 23 Dec 1969 am, Ahmedabad (*2)
Panth Prem Ko Atpato ~ 03 Dharam Ki Yatra #6
first sentence incomplete
  • 3. "Audio Not Available"
  • Dharm Ki Yatra 8. जीवन के तथ्यों से भागें नहीं
    first sentence incomplete
2. होश से क्रांति
Fergusson College, Poona, 16 Sep 1966 am
  • 3. होश से क्रांति
    some sentences missing in beginning
  • Dharm Ki Yatra 9. जीवन के तथ्यों से भागें नहीं
    first sentence incomplete
  • 3. होश से क्रांति
    some sentences missing in beginning
  • 9. जीवन के तथ्यों से भागें नहीं
    first sentence incomplete
3. होश से क्रांति
some sentences missing in beginning
16 Sep 1966 am, Fergusson College, Poona
Asambhav Kranti ~ 02 Asambhav Kranti #2
  • 4. "Audio Not Available"
  • Asambhav Kranti 2. पुराने का विसर्जन, नये का जन्म
3. स्वयं का साक्षात् (first part of the chapter)
available beginning of the event only
med.camp Matheran, 22 Oct 1967 am
  • 4. स्वयं का साक्षात (p.47 - first paragraph of p.53)
    available beginning of the event only
  • Asambhav Kranti 2. पुराने का विसर्जन, नये का जन्म
  • 4. स्वयं का साक्षात (first part of the chapter)
    available beginning of the event only
  • Asambhav Kranti 2. आत्मा के फूल
    much incomplete in beginning and end
  • 4. स्वयं का साक्षात (p.1-6)
    available beginning of the event only
  • Asambhav Kranti 2. पुराने का विसर्जन, नये का जन्म
Asambhav Kranti (असंभव क्रांति), 1976ed., 2. आत्मा के फूल
much incomplete in beginning and end
19 Oct 1967 am, Matheran, meditation camp(*4)
Asambhav Kranti ~ 05 Asambhav Kranti #5
  • 4. "Audio Not Available"
  • Asambhav Kranti 5. क्रांति का क्षण
3. स्वयं का साक्षात् (second part of the chapter)
available second part of the event only
med.camp Matheran, 22 Oct 1967 am
  • 4. स्वयं का साक्षात (second paragraph of p.53 - p.62)
    available second part of the event only
  • Asambhav Kranti 5. क्रांति का क्षण
  • 4. स्वयं का साक्षात (second part of the chapter)
    available second part of the event only
  • Asambhav Kranti 5. क्रांति का क्षण
    missing meditation part
  • 4. स्वयं का साक्षात (p.7-16)
    available second part of the event only
  • Asambhav Kranti 5. क्रांति का क्षण
Asambhav Kranti (असंभव क्रांति), 1976ed., 5. क्रांति का क्षण 20 Oct 1967 am, Matheran, meditation camp(*4)
Panth Prem Ko Atpato ~ 05 5. "Audio Not Available" 6. अहंकार का भ्रम
Lions Club, Indore, 7 May 1967 pm
5. अहंकार का भ्रम 5. अहंकार का भ्रम 5. अहंकार का भ्रम 7 May 1967 pm, Lions Club, Indore (MP) (*3)

(*1) Date confirmed by Hindi series of talks with dates (source document).

(*2) Shailendra confirmed this date and added "am" to it.

(*3) Source of date/place is 1980 book edition. This date and place match to date from Manuscripts ~ Reports Timeline Extraction, but quotes from the manuscript do not, which are very close to Man Ka Darpan ~ 01 event. So for now two talks on this evening, one of them erroneous.

(*4) This chapter is in fact combination of two parts of two events (Asambhav Kranti ch.2 and 5) from Matheran med.camp, thus a date stated in 1980 is false.

Deliberations

Panth-Prem-2.jpg
Panth-Prem-2b.jpg

Unknown edition cover discussion

There is another, likely earlier edition which came to light while researching this book, but information on it is so butchered that it doesn't really merit putting on the main page for this book. Images at right represent the purported front and back covers, more about them below.

The information was found at Osho World, and consisted of the images, an ISBN 81-8393-039-5, a publisher, Sadhana Pocket Books, and a short blurb. This ISBN (hyphenated) is found only there but when the hyphens are removed, it is found at four booksellers' pages. Great, except they're assigning that ISBN to another Osho book, Samund Samana Bund Mein (समुंद समाना बुंद में). Well, okay but, uh, they're listing it as "Samudra Samana Bund Main," and, oh well, never mind.

Rebel Publisher Book Price list 2018.11 confirm that this ISBN belongs to Samund Samana Bund Mein.--DhyanAntar 05:16, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

The images are unusual to say the least. There is no title on the front cover, a significant omission. And it is a very different dimension from the back cover. How are they going to fit together? If the left side of the square-ish front cover were folded to cover the book's spine, it would be a book as thick as War and Peace (Large Print edition), so no, that won't work. Maybe just a large piece of the cover is missing, where the title is? Who knows?

At least the back cover is a normal dimension. It also appears to have a different ISBN but too low-res to make out. But is very likely a genuine back cover, as some of the Panth Prem blurb from oshoonline.com can be made out:

ब्रह्मचर्य परम भोग है
मनुष्य विक्षिप्त क्यों है?
जागना ही एकमात्र तपश्चर्या है
ज्ञान भीख नहीं है
अहंकार से मुक्ति का उपाय क्या है?

So be it.

Chapter order and titles discussion

Much of the discussion below was written before the 1989 Rebel edition showed up, making it partially obsolete. Thus, mentions of "the book" refer to OMI's 2013 edition, which was published to fit with the 2014 English translation. So five chapters and so on, whereas the 1989 edition had seven. New discussion follows the old. The 1989 edition's TOC has been added to the table in the old discussion for easier comparison. Note that the 1989 chapters have been re-ordered here to make like titles align; chapter numbers have been preserved.

Old discussion, prior to 2018

There was also a question of three vs five discourses/chapters. It seems that three is what you get from freebie audio download places and five from audiobooks and books. But there are a few twists. Below, a comparison of titles from book, Osho World audiobook and osho.com audiobook:

  अनुक्रम (the 2013 book's TOC):
.
.
.
1: ब्रह्मचर्य और समाधि
2: मनुष्य विक्षिप्त क्यों है?
3: होश से क्रांति
4: स्वयं का साक्षात
.
5: अहंकार का भ्रम
  प्रवचन (OW audiobook):
.
.
.
1. ब्रह्मचर्य और समाधि
2. मनुष्य विक्षिप्त क्यों है?
.
3. स्वयं का साक्षात
4. कामऊर्जा का ऊध्र्वगमन
5. अहंकार का भ्रम
  विषय सूची (o.com audiobook):
0.
0.
0.
1. ब्रह्मचर्य और समाधि
2. मनुष्य विक्षिप्त क्यों है?
.
.
.
.
  अनुक्रम (the 1989 book's TOC):
.
.
1. भीतर है आनंद
5: ब्रह्मचर्य और समाधि
7: मनुष्य विक्षिप्त क्यों है?
2: होश से क्रांति
3: स्वयं का साक्षात
4. काम-ऊर्जा का ऊर्ध्वगमन
6: अहंकार का भ्रम

For some reason, titles are different between OW's audiobook and the book for #3 and 4. Undoubtedly it all makes internal sense. -- Sarlo (talk) 09:38, 9 August 2014 (PDT)


Anyway, the meaning of the chapters of the book are kind of exactly the same as the chapters of Breaking All Boundaries (2014), the English translation.

The colophon of that translation:

"Originally published in Hindi in 1980 as Panth Prem Ko Atpato." (So there should be a 1980 edition.)
"Extemporaneous talks given by Osho in Mumbai, Ahmedabad, Pune, Matheran and Indore, India."

--Sugit (talk) 10:43, 7 January 2016 (UTC)


In addition to this, the 1980 edition was attested to by the recent publications list of Rahiman Dhaga Prem Ka (रहिमन धागा प्रेम का), published in July 1980. In that list, it was referred to as a "pocket edition". The publisher was also on that basis assumed to be Rajneesh Foundation. -- doofus-9 18:46, 12 November 2017 (UTC)


New discussion, 2018 +

There have been lots of changes since 1989, perhaps under the influence of a variety of priorities. Not only does 1989's book have more chapters, including one not found in any of the other formats, its chapters are in a different order. More research is needed! -- doofus-9 03:44, 23 February 2018 (UTC)


Dec 2019 brought new data on first edition published in 1980 by RF, incl. dates stated in ends of chapters. These are:

  • Ch.5: Bombay, 20 Jun 1970
  • Ch.6: sannyas class, Indore, 7 May 1967 pm
  • Ch.7: Ahmedabad, 23 Dec 1969 : this talk is not Bharat Ke Nirnayak Kshan ~ 01, although they both on the same date. Shailendra gave info that 2nd talk (of 5) of Panth given in the morning of 23 Dec 1969. Hindi series of talks with dates (source document) calls this talk Manushya Ek Ajayabghar (point 39 in the table), it confirmed by match of dates from book and the list and theme of talk (Osho mentions Ajayabghar (museum) 25 times during only this talk in the series (searched in Shailendra's PDF).

Beginning and end of ch.4 of Shailendra's PDF matches with text of 1980 edition (ch.3). This chapter looks as combined:

1) p.47-53 - is first part of Asambhav Kranti, ch.2 (of Shailendra's PDF). Check of OW audio #2 confirmed integrity of event text in ch.2 of Asambhav Kranti.
2) from second paragraph of p.53-p.62 - is second part of Asambhav Kranti, ch.5 (of Shailendra's PDF). Check of OW audio #5 confirmed integrity of event text in ch.5 of Asambhav Kranti.--DhyanAntar 12:58, 6 August 2020 (UTC)