The Last Testament (Vol 3) ~ 09
|date & time||30 Sep 1985 pm|
|location||Sanai Grove, Rajneeshpuram|
|audio||Available, duration 0h 18min. Quality: good.|
|video||Available, duration 0h 18min. Quality: good, but a slight constant audio-noise. (See notes)|
|online text||find the PDF of this discourse. Complete transcript is here.|
- A unique recording, in the sense that Osho is recorded on video in Rajneeshpuram before an audience of sannyasins, but answering questions on a audio-connection. Interviewers are Ted Knoppel/Charles Gibson, live on Nightline, ABC-TV. In the same broadcast also Attorney General David Frohnmayer is being interviewed. Most of Frohnmayer has been left out of the CD-ROM transcript.
- In the video, after 15:33 "Good night Charlie", Osho namastes to leave, but is called back by Charlie Gibson and the conversation continues (off-broadcast) for 2 minutes. Audio recordings omit this part.
- Some questions are shortened on CD-ROM. For a complete audio transcript, see The Last Testament (Vol 3) ~ 09 (transcript).
- In the film Osho's Arrest (1985), the video is shown, but there is extra footage of Osho walking from his car to the auditorium and later back, discussing with Ma Prem Hasya and Ma Yoga Vivek.
- Interview. Announcements: unknown (beginning of recording is missing).
- CD-ROM on this chapter: Interview with Ted Knoppel/Charles Gibson, Nightline, ABC-TV. This is Live TV coverage including An interview with Oregon Attorney General David Frohnmeyer in Portland.
- Question 1
- Can the Bhagwan hear me? Are we coming through to the Bhagwan? This is Charlie Gibson in Washington.
- Question 2
- Bhagwan, is it true that you have not yet held this news conference?
- Question 3
- Bhagwan, at your news conference you are going to tell your followers that you are no longer their guru but just their friend. Why are you doing this?
- Question 4
- Why are you not their guru, then?
- Question 5
- Didn't you realize during that period of time that they were following you in a religious sense?
- Question 6
- What kind of a relationship did you have with her, Sheela, for those three and a half years?
- (Note that Question 7 is missing on the CD-ROM.
- Just your secretary?)
- Question 8
- And she didn't tell you what was going?
- Question 9
- There was a case in court brought against you and your followers for improperly mixing church and state. So you must have known... that your group was claiming church status.
- Question 10
- What does this announcement today do to your group for the future. What difference will it make?
- Question 11
- Will this take away the tax-exempt status or your organization?
- (Note that Question 12 is missing on the CD-ROM.
- Well, whether you care or not, will it take it away?)
- Question 13
- As I understand it, it will cost you your tax-exempt status....
- (Note that Question 14 is missing on the CD-ROM.
- It will not, what? Cost you a lot of money?)
- Question 15
- You claim Sheela left with a lot of money. How much money did she take from you?
- Question 16
- There are some people who think you are still cooperating with her and may go to Europe with her. Is that true?
- Question 17
- You're going to stay in Oregon come what....
- (Note that questions 18-22 are missing on the CD-ROM, where Gibson interviews Frohnmeyer, head of the investigation in Rajneeshpuram.
- Question 18
- Alright, Bhagwan, let me ask you just to standby for a moment. We are going to take a break and when we come back, we’re gonna talk to an Oregon official with a different perspective on the Bhagwan and his followers, David Frohnmeyer, Attorney General, for the state of Oregon.
- Joining us live now from our affiliate KATU in Portland, Oregon, is Oregon Attorney General, David Frohnmeyer, recently named by the Governor of Oregon, to head an investigation into the activities at Rajneeshpuram, headquarters of the Rajneesh cult. Mister Frohnmeyer, given what the Bhagwan has decided today, does this change the nature of your investigation in any way?
- Question 19
- And does the nature of those allegations, the seriousness of those allegations give you increased authority to go in in effect to the area and find out what's been going on for the last three and a half years?
- Question 20
- You’re working together, and I understand that, but does it give you authority, all of the groups, to go into the Rajneeshpuram and find out what's been going on, as so many of us have wondered, for three and a half years?
- Question 21
- Alright. Do you have reason to suspect that the charges of attempted murder and arson and embezzlement are true?
- Question 22
- The Bhagwan's assistant Sheela, who fled to Europe, has now charged that there is widespread drug use in that commune. Do you think that is correct?)
- (From here questions to Bhagwan)
- Question 23
- Bhagwan, your assistant, Sheela, has charged that there is widespread drug use in your Rajneeshpuram, and that many of your followers are in effect drugged most of the time. Is that correct?
- Question 24
- There is no use of this drug ecstasy at your commune?
- Question 25
- Is it used at all?
- Question 26
- She has charged also the illegal use and procurement of weapons.
- Question 27
- Isn't a leader to a large degree responsible for the actions of his followers?
- Question 28
- Those people are followers of yours, they are there because of you.
- Question 29
- Well, they have contributed money that has wound up with you having ninety Rolls Royces.
- Question 30
- But it certainly would indicate that you were considered by them to be their leader. Doesn't the leader at some point have to take responsibility for what his.... I think you've called them disciples, have you not?
- (Note that Questions 31 and 32 are missing on the CD-ROM: Gibson asks Frohnmeyer.
- Question 31
- Continuing our discussion now, David Frohnmeyer, the Bhagwan continues to insist that he has never been a religious leader, that he has never been a leader at all, and that he is now just a friend to those people who are at Rajneeshpuram. From a legal standpoint, does that change the nature in any way of what you are doing? Does that make it legally less culpable? Does it change its legal status in any way?
- Question 32
- I understand that, but he has now hired a lawyer, who advises him. He is very, these people who are around I guess, are very aware of what his legal situation is, and I am wondering if this change in status in effect, self-declared or whatever, may change any legal status that he has.
- (From here questions to Bhagwan)
- Question 33
- Bhagwan, will your announcement today change in any way what relationship you had with your group a year ago?
- Question 34
- Bhagwan, your actions today did have something to do with that church-state case that was brought by the....
- Question 35 to Mr. Frohnmeyer
- Mr. Frohnmeyer, your response to that?
- Question 36
- Bhagwan, are you saying...?
- Question 37
- But did you have that case in mind when you decided...?
- Question 38
- I'm still somewhat uncertain as to why he's done what he's doing tonight, but I most appreciate his being with us and I think this was interesting. Thank you.
- Question 39
- I suppose this will be pursued in the courts and I hope we have a chance to do this again as this....
- Question 40
- Would you be interested in coming on and... and talking to Sheela at some point?
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